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Re: PETA and "snowball"


Ultra-fanatics of any kind are usually way out there. But most animal
rights groups I believe have their heart in the right place as do most
of their members. What makes me nuts is that people won't spend a few
bucks to spay or neuter and end up w/ a gazillion unwanted animals.
Unless you're a breeder by profession, I see no reason not to have your
dogs and cats fixed. Just my opinion of course. Getting off my soapbox
now - thank you!!

:-)

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Jesse Bell" <jesserenebell@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: gardenchat@hort.net
Date:  Mon, 06 Oct 2003 19:44:25 -0500

>Well, good intentions are there (PETA) but as usual, there are always a few 
>over zealous people that make it difficult for people to understand and 
>tolerate.  My husband just adopted a cat from the Tulsa Animal Shelter.  He 
>is so sweet...I can't imagine somebody NOT loving him.  But he has 
>pneumonia.  We've been doctoring him for a week now and today the vet gave 
>us a STRONGER antibiotic.  It saddens me that so many animals have no homes 
>or somebody to love them.  And when we went in the shelter, they had posters 
>up of animals that had been abused and what had happened to them.  It just 
>sickened me to see that.  I can't even go there.
>
>As for the "snowball" story...my cousin-in-law rescued a white chicken 
>(rooster) that flew out of a Tyson's chicken truck, going down the highway.  
>She still has him.  She bought him two "girlfriends" and they lived happily 
>ever after.
>
>Jesse Rene' Bell
>Claremore, OK
>Zone 6
>
>
>>From: "Kitty" <kmrsy@comcast.net>
>>Reply-To: gardenchat@hort.net
>>To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
>>Subject: Re: [CHAT] insect control
>>Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 19:39:15 -0500
>>
>>You know, these days so many people use PETA like a dirty word.  Recently
>>someone **accused** me of being a PETA member, because I voiced a negative
>>opinion of her shooting her own dog with a pellet gun to get it to stop
>>barking.  Yes, PETA has some overzealous nutcases, but their basic tenet of
>>kindness toward animals is reasonable.
>>
>>Kitty
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Daryl" <pulis@mindspring.com>
>>To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
>>Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 3:25 PM
>>Subject: Re: [CHAT] insect control
>>
>>
>> > "I understand the city of San Diego destroyed many of their venerable
>> > Hibiscus trees because of a white fly problem.  "
>> >
>> > Yikes! That pains me. You're right, you have to know the (often rapid,
>> > especially in warm temperatures) life cycle of the critters to get a
>>handle
>> > on them.
>> >
>> > I haven't found rotation (of pesticide types, for those lurking) to be
>> > important when using water, hort oils or soaps. They act directly by
>> > drowning, drying or smothering. Back in the days when I used chemicals,
>> > there was a constant battle of resistance, and rotation was the only way
>>to
>> > avoid it.
>> >
>> > As for biologicals in the greenhouse, you have to be dedicated. You're
>> > right, you can't maintain beneficials without a food source. And they do
>> > have narrow temperature and humidity ranges. That's why the need for 
>>spot
>> > spraying with soaps and hort oils.
>> >
>> > Re PETA, I wouldn't be surprised, since some of them are against any 
>>form
>>of
>> > human interference and even want to outlaw pets. I know many folks in 
>>PETA
>> > that are more moderate though, and some might even applaud a method that
>> > involves killing target species rather than wholesale spraying of toxic
>> > chemicals.
>> >
>> > Remind me some time to tell the story of Snowball, a large "rescue"
>>chicken.
>> >
>> > Daryl
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "David Franzman" <dfranzma@pacbell.net>
>> > To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
>> > Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 12:58 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [CHAT] insect control
>> >
>> >
>> > > Well you're right Daryl if your neighbors are all spraying and you're
>> > > not you will have a more difficult time if not impossible to control 
>>in
>> > > a natural way.  I had a nasty white fly invasion in my backyard this
>> > > year.  I've never seen  them like this.  I figure it was because we 
>>had
>> > > such a mild winter that the population wasn't killed off by the cold.
>> > > In any case my wife urged me to spray the little blighters.  I 
>>resisted
>> > > mainly because I have a nice population of birds including several
>> > > hummers and I didn't want to poison them.  Not to mention the bees and
>> > > other beneficials.  I did cut way back the plant that seemed to be
>> > > housing them and that was the Melianthus.  Problem now seems to under
>> > > control and I never did spray.
>> > >
>> > > I understand the city of San Diego destroyed many of their venerable
>> > > Hibiscus trees because of a white fly problem.  I have come to
>> > > understand that most people do not know how to use insecticides in the
>> > > proper way.  I suspect that was the case of San Diego but I'm not 
>>sure.
>> > > Rotation is the most important aspect but if the population is bad you
>> > > have to spray every three days at least three times to kill off the
>> > > succeeding generations.  If you don't do that you won't take care of 
>>the
>> > > problem.
>> > >
>> > > Biologicals to me aren't very useful in the greenhouse if you are 
>>going
>> > > for near zero population.  First their temperature range makes them
>> > > fragile.  Second, you have to have a population of bad guys otherwise
>> > > your beneficials will starve to death.
>> > >
>> > > Interesting piece on the vacuum method.  I wonder if PETA will become
>> > > involved?  They certainly don't like it when they force feed geese to
>> > > make froi gras.
>> > >
>> > > DF
>> > >
>> > > Daryl wrote:
>> > >
>> > > >David,
>> > > >
>> > > >You've raised a good point. You'll notice I used the words 
>>"resistant"
>> > > >instead of "immune" and "usually" rather than "always".  ;-)
>> > > >
>> > > >There are times when you can't let Ma Nature do it all, particularly,
>>as
>> > you
>> > > >mentioned, if it's an imported pest with no natural controls.
>>Sometimes,
>> > > >too, the beneficial insect population has been so knocked down by 
>>other
>> > > >folk's spraying, or because of weather, that some help is needed.
>> > > >
>> > > >Where intervention is needed, I try to use the least toxic method for
>>the
>> > > >job. Many insects can be removed with a blast of water, or by 
>>smooshing
>> > > >them, or clipping off severely infested branches. Insecticidal soap
>> > sprays
>> > > >are useful for some soft-bodied insects such as Aphids. Ultra-fine 
>>hort
>> > oils
>> > > >such as Sunspray will do quite a fair job on White Fly (at least the
>>two
>> > > >kinds that we get here) and on Spider Mites.
>> > > >
>> > > >When I used to work in a greenhouse, we also used Cinna-mite, and one
>> > year
>> > > >an IGR for the Poinsettias. The greenhouse owners tried to avoid 
>>harsh
>> > > >pesticides as much as possible, preferring to release predators and 
>>do
>> > spot
>> > > >spraying w/ water or hort oil. It's not always possible in that kind 
>>of
>> > > >un-natural environment, though. If nothing else, the high fertility
>> > levels,
>> > > >particularly Nitrogen, make the plants more attractive to insects, 
>>not
>>to
>> > > >mention the inevitable crowding and the need to sell pest-free 
>>plants.
>> > > >
>> > > >I confess to using an IGR in my own greenhouse one year, when the 
>>White
>> > > >Flies were so bad that I couldn't inhale, and you couldn't walk 
>>through
>> > it
>> > > >without slipping on the insecticidal soap. It was my fault for not
>>paying
>> > > >attention, though, and also for bringing in an infested plant that I
>>felt
>> > > >sorry for. Never again!
>> > > >
>> > > >(I also should add that I still have my original bottles of both
>>Sunspray
>> > > >and Insecticidal Soap after many years. Obviously, I don't use very
>> > much.)
>> > > >
>> > > >Daryl
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >----- Original Message -----
>> > > >From: "David Franzman" <dfranzma@pacbell.net>
>> > > >To: "Garden" <gardenchat@hort.net>
>> > > >Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 2:39 PM
>> > > >Subject: [CHAT] insect control
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >>Hey Daryl
>> > > >>
>> > > >>I just read your letter about allowing mother nature to take care of
>>the
>> > > >>insects in the garden.  I completely agree with you with this 
>>caveat:
>> > > >>Under your guidelines how should one control an insect invasion from 
>>a
>> > > >>foreign nation or area when that harmful bug has no natural 
>>controls?
>> > > >>There are many instances of this but the two that stand out here are
>>the
>> > > >>Glassy Winged Sharpshooter (from the southeast) which damages
>>vineyards
>> > > >>and more important for me and my business is the Giant Whitefly from
>> > > >>Mexico  which leaves a nasty white stringy goo on Hibs and other
>> > > >>plants.  Neither of these insects have a natural predator here so I
>>was
>> > > >>wondering how your philosophy deals with this kind of menace.  
>>(Again,
>> > > >>in my garden I practice what you describe.)
>> > > >>
>> > > >>DF
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >
>> > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>_________________________________________________________________
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--
Pam Evans
Kemp TX/zone 8A



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