Re: Pressurized timbers

**"* P* <r*@comcast.net>**

Marge,

In response to your comment about using plastic
(or composite) lumber for structural support...

I recently attended a seminar from the major
manufacturers of composite lumber.  The
composite lumber has not been given the OK as
of yet in Michigan for use in structural supports or
anything touching or in the ground...(as of last
summer).

Representatives from the pressure treated
industry were also present with data indicating the
public had indeed gone over the deep end.  It did
not matter.  They were almost ran off the stage...
and nobody talked to them after the show.  The
"public" did not believe them.

Sandie Parrott

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marge Talt" <mtalt@hort.net>
To: "Garden Writers -- GWL -- The Garden Writers Forum"
<gardenwriters@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 3:03 AM
Subject: Re: [GWL] Pressurized timbers

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From Carol  Hughes
> > Also  a scientist in California who says arsenic from CCA wood
> stunts plant
> > growth and turns leaves yellow.
>
> Now, I find this most interesting.  I grew veggies for 20 years in
> raised beds edged with treated landscape timbers.  Ate the resulting
> produce; no negative effects  on me and the plants were all green
and
> healthy (well, as healthy as the bugs would let them be).  Have
quite
> a few beds edged with treated bender board - plants all healthy -
> green and happy.   My deck has treated base columns, deck boards and
> rail near which and upon which grow numerous green and healthy
plants
> including a very healthy wisteria twining around treated lumber
> columns and treated lumber trellis - it's grown there for nearly 30
> years and would like to eat the house.
>
> I have to wonder just what kind of test this scientist in CA used to
> get these results.  What plants were grown under what conditions and
> in what kind of contact with said lumber?  Was the lumber off the
> shelf or specially treated for this test?
>
> It appears to me that we, in the US, (and, it appears from this
post,
> other countries) must have major issues to create a fuss about and
if
> we don't get some as a natural result of life, we create them.  I
> have to put the current hysteria about treated lumber in that
> category.  Yes, of course, we should use some common sense (does
> anybody still possess such a thing) and not burn treated lumber,
sand
> it or saw it without a mask nor munch on it, nor allow our infants
to
> chew it nor consume the soil adjacent to it - does anybody actually
> monitor what their small children are doing these days?
>
> Treated lumber has always come with printed warnings against burning
> and subjecting oneself to dust from it, washing hands, etc., but
that
> requires a modicum of intelligence and the ability to read on the
> part of the user.
>
> However, since we (the public) do not seem able to read or follow
> instructions and do not seem to have much sense about anything, AND
> have a deep-seated need to blow any issue way out of proportion and
> expect legislation to take the place of individual responsibility,
> now treated lumber is making it to the top of the pariah list -
we've
> got to ban it.
>
> The list of things that people want to ban in this country grows
> longer every day.  Think of anything; today or tomorrow there will
be
> a group of people (with not enough to occupy their time) screaming
> for legislation or regulations to ban it.  Unfortunately, they often
> make a louder noise than the few remaining people with some common
> sense.
>
> The industry is curtailing production of CCA lumber to save their
> rears from lawsuits...this is a litigation happy country.  As noted,
> it will still be available for commercial use because there is
> NOTHING that keeps lumber from rotting when in contact with soil or
> masonry as well as CCA treatment.  As far as I know, nothing has
been
> developed (except fake plastic lumber) that will last as long as CCA
> treated lumber.  I do not do residential design and have not
> researched the structural values of plastic lumber, so I don't know
> if it will be able to replace structural members, but it is being
> used for deck boards.  Now, since it is petroleum based, I expect it
> will be only a matter of years - once it is used enough - when we
see
> some outcry because children are chewing on it and having adverse
> reactions.    Nobody is saying anything about the toxicity of
> penetrating stain...it's not a benign substance.
>
> Let us research issues, using factual data from original sources.  I
> do not consider reports in any form of media factual data, myself
> unless they are reproducing the original research work in its
> entirety.  The EPA is a necessary  agency in today's world, but it
> has to justify its existence and provide something for its many
> employees to do to earn their pay.  Treated lumber is a much easier
> target than actually dealing with our polluted air and water and the
> huge chemical messes we've dotted around the country.
>
> Yes, I'm feeling cranky tonight:-)
>
> Marge Talt, zone 7 Maryland
> mtalt@hort.net
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