Patriot ploidy level

Ben:

>PS I will not react anymore to the, as usual, very insulting letter 
>of Joe Halinar.

I asked you a very simple question after you posted a message saying 
that Patriot was a polyploid.  All I wanted was a simple answer to 
what the ploidy level was and how you came to this conclusion.  
Basically, your response to everyone on this robin was to go stick a 
finger up their nose.  

Then, when I was explaining why I was trying to get sports to figure 
out a pattern you said that you had already collected all known sports 
and that all I had to do was read your book of sports.  Ben, that was 
not only a great insult to my intelligence but also to the 
intelligence of everyone on this robin.  First, I doubt that anyone 
could collect ALL KNOWN sports.  If I remember correctly from one of 
your previous posts you have only been growing hostas for three years 
and only grow 60 cultivars.  Since you collected ALL KNOWN sports, 
would you please tell us just how many you did collect.  Or, do you 
mean you collected the description of all known sports?  Secondly, 
there are so many errors in your book of sports that it would probably 
be a major set back for me to read it.  If you have already figured 
out what causes variegated hostas and why hostas sport, then why are 
we having a discussion about this topic?

Now, back to the ploidy level of Patriot.  With the exception of the 
first flower to open on Patriot which had anthers that were just a bit 
larger then Francee, all the anthers on Patriot are the same size as 
Patriot and they look identical.  Also, the fertility pattern of 
Francee and Patriot appear to be the same and there is no difference 
in flower size between the two.  It is clear that Patriot is not a 
full 4N-4N tetraploid.  At best it is a 4N-2N cyto-chimera.

Hostas are probably going to be no different then daylilies when it 
comes to the behavior of treated diploids.  To get a full tetraploid 
you have to have all the apical initials of the L1 layer and ALL the 
cells in the L2 apex to be converted to tetraploid.  This just isn't 
going to happpen easily.  You might get one of the L1 apical initials 
to convert to a tet and produce a mericlinal chimera that can then be 
stabilized as a mericlinal cyto-chimera.  However, the L2 apex doesn't 
have a organized apical initial structure, so at best you will get a 
mosaic pattern.  You might get some useful tet pollen, but most mosaic 
tet/diploid tissue eventually reverts back to diploid.  It is VERY 
difficult to get a full 4N-4N tet from treating a diploid.  It might 
be possible after several cycles of selection, but almost impossible 
on the first plant to emerge.

So, Ben, I guess by your response that I am right - you don't know the 
ploidy level of Patriot because you didn't do the chromosome count and 
measurement of the stoma.  

Joe Halinar

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