Re: TC and OS

Jim Hawes wrote:
> 
> Jim Hawes wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Hosta Friends and Ran,
> > >
> > > Ran, you reacted to my post as though what I was saying was a
> > > philosophical argument rather than scientific statements of fact. In
> > > effect, you summarized my post approximately as follows:
> > >
> > >    Say what you will, two problems still remain...
> > >
> > >      1.The Perennial Growers Association doesn't agree with
> > > your               position on what tc really is and
> > >
> > >      2.Because of the carelessness in culling, one can be sure most
> > > of        the time with OS. ( I have paraphrased for simplicity)
> > >
> > > Frankly, I do not follow the logic of your comments. I have been talking
> > > specifically about technical aspects of TCing Hostas. I have seen no
> > > rebuttal from anyone about the technical comments I have made. I am not
> > > in an argument with the Perennial Growers Association. They don't even
> > > know my thoughts on TCing Hostas, nor would they care about my position,
> > > nor would I care about theirs. My post was an attempt to dispell some
> > > mis-statements made about the demerits of TC Hosta  plants. If anyone
> > > wishes to discuss what I have stated, I would be willing to go into the
> > > discussion in further detail. So far, no one has done this. Instead my
> > > comments have been dismissed out of hand by you because they do not
> > > correspond with views of the Perennial Growers Association.
> > >
> > > I will make the case again, more clearly and with different wording.
> > >
> > > Because Hostas are unique in their ability to produce chimeras
> > > (variegated sports)  spontaneously, both in the garden and in tissue
> > > culture, an understanding of the reasons for the large numbers of
> > > chimeras is necessary to prevent any possible excess. These chimeras
> > > will occur because of the unique manner in which they readily arise from
> > > meristems. This is beyond human control. I admitted in my posts that
> > > there is a need to understand the principles involved in the origin of
> > > bud sports. I also suspect that there are few TC lab operators who fully
> > > understand the principles involved. I am not talking about green
> > > perennials in general. I am talking specifically about TCing chimeral
> > > Hostas. If variegated hostas in tissue culture develop sports, OF COURSE
> > > they must be selected out if uniformity is desired.This was part of my
> > > "position" as expressed in my previous posts. I don't think you read my
> > > statements carefully.
> > >
> > > I have attempted to make the case that TC plants are identical to OS
> > > plants genotypically and phenotypically IF NO SPORTS OCCUR! I have seen
> > > no logical arguments or proof that my statements are incorrect. I
> > > continue to say what I have said and I invite anyone to disprove what I
> > > have said.
> > >
> > > Jim Hawes Oakland MD
> > > hawesj@gcnet.netOk Jim:
In the " pure " sense of the process (TC) you are right.  But being 
"right" scientifically, doesn't make it work as OS for a buyer who has 
the wrong plant.  For the reason I have pointed out, the "human" factor 
in the culling process, and because there is plenty of room for error, in 
the seliction of material for culture,I believe that , for now, we must 
hold TC material of less than two years (in process) suspect!  I will 
continue to believe (for now) that OS on material known to be from the 
original source, is a valid notation.
Ran
> 
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