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Re: [IGSROBIN] what's in a name?

G'day Andrew,
Boy you have opened a can of worns.
If you have another read of my e-mail I did acknowledge that Ciconiums and
Peltatums were able to cross. Equally within the Pelargonium Family other
crosses have ocurred between species of differing sections or sub-genus. I
was merely indicating that Regals will not hybridize with zonals.The
response to the rest of your comments re groupings will have to wait until
Geraniaceae is all around the World

> From: Andrew <awilson@FDA.NET>
> Subject: Re: what's in a name?
> Date: Saturday, 29 May 1999 16:42
> Dear Alby and Cynthia,
> While I appreciate the information you've given there seems to be a
> problem. Let me put this as carefully as I can without trying to get
> anyone upset, but I don't see how both of you can be right!  Here's the
> problem. Alby says, if I interpret him correctly, you cannot get crosses
> between members of different sections (sub-groups); Cynthia says that
> the Regals came from crosses between species that belonged to different
> sections (P. cucullatum , P. betulinum are in the de Candolle section,
> P. grandiflorum is in the Glaucophyllum section while P. fulgidum is in
> the Ligularia section).
> Can somebody help clear this one up? I've never understood the sections.
> The definition of them is usually given pretty loosely and it ends up
> with a list saying which species belongs where but does not tell
> precisely why. Are the distinctions really based on genetic differences
> and on the ability to procreate only through intra-section and, of
> course, intra-species coupling? Or is there possibly a distinction
> between the terms 'sub-genus' and 'family' as used by Alby (see below)
> that I am not understanding? Or have there been name changes that
> confuse the definition of the species involved in the developoment of
> these wonderful but highly convoluted hybrid plants?
> I did not intend the original question I had to lead to this but now
> that it's started it would be helpful to me, and maybe others, to see it
> cleared up. Thanks.
> Andrew
> San Diego, California
> Alby wrote:
> " Regals
> are part of the Pelargonium/Pelargium sub-genus whilst Zonals belong to
> an
> entirely different family known as Ciconium.  Ivies, that is P.Peltatum
> from their own family have crossed with zonals or Ciconiums.   It has
> been
> thought that the (sub-genus)Pelargonium family may cross with the
> Peltatums
> and thus the resultant hybrid may then cross with a Ciconium.
> Personally
> my opinion for what its worth is "NUTS".
> Cynthia wrote:
> "Take Pelargonium cucullatum (1672) Pelargonium Betulinum(1786)
> Pelargonium
> grandiflorum(1794) Pelargonium fulgidum (1732) and other conjecturals
> that
> share the same chromosome combinations and the First early hybrids were
> made
> in England 1800-1840....the early "regals" large ruffled, heavy markings
> were
> born in 1877-1914".

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