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Re: [Hot Compost!] // Manures and other questions

Square Foot Gardening List - http://www.flinet.com/~gallus/sqft.html



>Great news about the *hot* compost, Kim. I can definitely understand your
>exuberance. <g>
>
>I have some questions on compost and manure too. We are new at growing some
>chicken and rabbits (small amounts of both) and I'm finally getting some
>manure to incorporate in my compost pile. In fact, I was out turning the
>compost piles just yesterday and the day before -- and that's where my
>questions come from.
>
>The rabbit manure comes with a lot of alfalfa hay that has dropped through
>the cages. A lot. When I turned the pile with the first batch of bunny
>manure with alfalfa I noticed it hadn't decomposed hardly at all, some not
>at all. I don't know if there was too much brown (the alfalfa), and not
>enough green (the manure) -- or maybe I didn't keep the pile moist enough
>)quite possible), because these sections were very, very dry. But even the
>part that wasn't AS dry didn't decompose quite as quickly as I'd have
>thought it would with the manure. Any thoughts, comments, suggestions?

First of all, alfalfa is a green, big time, not a brown. Sounds like you had
too much N and not enough moisture, would be my guess.
>
>I'll also say that a key reason I was turning the compost piles (other than
>that they needed it) was that we had a new *harvest* of manure to add. The
>new batch of bunny manure with alfalfa has a very strong ammonia smell,
>which I presume is just their urine and not the smell of a too-rich
>nitrogen mix, especially since there were  no signs of decompostion to the
>new stuff. Right?

Ammonia *is* N, and if you can smell it you are losing it. Consider adding
more bedding to your bunny situation.
>
>I'd especially like some help with this since I have a big pile of bunny
>manure and alfalfa to yet put on the piles after I turn them (or start a
>new one, probably). This time I'm adding a bit of compost starter after
>several layers -- that's normally just bacteria, right?

This should be really unnecessary with the rabbit manure, plenty of bacteria
in that...
>
>On to chicken manure. Ours is mixed with pine shavings which decompose
>verrrrrrry slooooooowly. ::sigh:: The chickens make the most mess under
>their roost and we've now spread plastic underneath to capture more of the
>manure and less of the pine. Any other suggestions for the existing compost
>piles? Will compsot starter help speed up the decomposition of any of the
>heavy pine shavings parts as I turn the old piles?

Best with woody wastes is to keep the moisture levels up. Consider the
virtues of using straw, shredded leaves, or other less lignous materials
than wood, if good compost rapidly achieved is the goal.

I have found that the addition of grass clippings to woody piles helps move
things along, but most important is the maintenance of good moisture levels,
60-80% is the target zone and you can go higher if you have good worm
populations to work with.
>
>Two other questions. How do you folks manage  your compost ingredients? It
>seems in the spring and summer Nature provides an abundane of green stuff,
>and the brown is harder to come by, while in fall and winter, you're
>overloaded with brown. Do you save leaves to intersperse with green in the
>spring/summer? What do you do in fall/winter (other than bring in manure)?

I do stockpile browns in the fall for use with spring and summer greens, as
well as for my indoor vermicomposting. With animals the need for bedding to
absorb the ammonia and surround the excreta is also important for their
health.
>
>Finally, what do ya'll  do to hold finished compost? I'm afraid to just let
>it sit in a bin, because the rain might leach out the good stuff. Putting
>it in plastic tubs, like I did earlier this year, covered with black leaf
>bags, probably wasn't a good thing for what our Frank Teuton calls the
>microherd and also the earthworms (which probably cooked in the summer
sun).

Finished compost can be kept under shelter easily enough with a tarp,
geotextile, or what have you. Trash cans with the little plug knocked out of
the top will let in enough air to keep the compost aerobic, since finished
compost respires much less than when it is more actively decaying. But even
geotextile will shed enough rain to keep much of the goodness from leaching
out of the compost, so for large amounts that should be the most
cost-effective.

The best place for compost, of course, is in the root zone of some plants
you want to grow, right? :-)
>
>Okay, I guess I have one more question. If you buy compost from Home Depot
>(or elsewhere) is it any good? Can it possibly have any live stuff in it?
>Same question for Black Cow or other manures -- is it any good? How do they
>produce it? They've GOT to sterilize it (probably in huge ovens or
>soemthing) -- doesn't that destroy much of what you want from compost or
>manure in the first place? If I don't have enough manure from my chickens
>and rabbits, will the purchased manure serve?


Yeah, OG did a survey and found some really poor composts out there, but it
is a pretty local phenomenon so it is best, if you feel you are going to
need to buy commercial composts, to run your own trials or at least check
with other organic gardeners right in your area.

Just for the record, many of these products are made with hot composting
that often goes too hot and sterilizes the material, destroying some but not
all of its value.

Hot compost gives one a certain satisfaction, and I recommend everyone do it
at least some of the time, partly because bringing together large amounts of
compostables, it is difficult to avoid some heating.

In my 4x4x4 pallet composters, I get temps from 145 to 160 occurring in the
early phases, and I immediately try to get more aeration happening by making
many holes  every six inches with a piece of rebar. I then rely on the worms
to bring the microherd (riding on their backs, so to speak) back into the
warm core of the pile as things cool off.

I try to stay below 140 and know composters, commercial composters, who
compost entirely below 131, where the range of microorganisms is greater and
the decomposition occurs more rapidly and more thoroughly.

This is what the more recent composting literature seems to demonstrate
clearly, in spite of the old myths about hot composting producing a superior
or faster compost.

What hot composting does do in short order is kill off pathogens and weed
seeds; three days at 131 degrees F is all that is needed to do that.

Worm composting, on the other hand, gives you a compost in as little as
thirty days in high density systems, that is bacterially transformed and
will not support pathogenic bacteria.

Some of the research done on hot piles made with biosolids ( that is sewage
sludge's new name, for those who don't know the term) showed that they could
be re-infected with pathogenic bacterial such as Salmonella, after a short
composting period at high temperatures; vermicompost, or any well aged
compost, is stable and will not support pathogen growth.

Good methods for handling daily or weekly amounts of manures and other
wastes include flow through worm bins, windrow systems, or especially a
wedge type system where the pile is started in one place, charged with
worms, and then new additions made on a 45 degree angle so that the pile
grows away from its original location; this is especially useful for worm
composting, as the redworms will migrate out of the finished compost and
into the newly decomposing wedges as they begin to break down, speeding up
the process and enhancing the quality of the product.

As the first laid down materials mature, the worm move along the moving
wedge system and few will remain in the initial material, which can then be
harvested.

This system also allows the worms an escape zone from materials which heat
up or have too much ammonia in them at the beginning; as the heat subsides
and the chemical nature of the material becomes more agreeable to the worms
(fresh conifer shavings and sawdust are irritating and so is ammonia) they
will move into it and begin their work.

Check out www.yelmworms.com, among other places, for info on worm composting
manures.

These materials can be used by anyone mixed in with shredded leaves, wood
chips, etc, and kept moist enough for good breakdown.

Hope this helps, and sorry if I threw cold water on anyone's hot headed
compost ideas...:-)

The heat, BTW, is the by product of microbial activity and is good, but only
up to a point....

Good composting,

Frank Teuton


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