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Re: Clay pH, ReButtal - Thx !!! :>)

Square Foot Gardening List - http://www.flinet.com/~gallus/sqft.html

Bill wrote:
>>> Clay is usually pretty good pH and nutrient-wise, 

>Anyway, I read this about clay, a LOTTA places.  Let me say, I BELIEVE it was
>primarily about NPK and trace elements, tho, but I felt pH was meant also. 
>THIS makes clay a ph LOW, (at least there at Pat's)  Correction is Base.
From
>what I read, this tends to be a pain.  As the bases tend to be solids, and
>need mixing with the soil, and time to migrate and react, or maybe the acid
>migrates and comes into contact and co-neutralizes.  So a retest isn't tried
>for a month or two minimum.

Perhaps clay in the west is alkaline???????? I've read that IN GENERAL soil
in the East is acidic, in the West alkaline, in the Midwest more neutral.
Until recently I didn't think any place but the SE (Georgia in particular)
even had clay. <g> Shows what I know.

The recommended correction for MY area is dolomitic limestone (dolomitic
for the calcium and magnesium) and its recommended application about 3
months before you plan to plant. Better late than never, though, as it will
eventually *dissolve* or whatever it does, hopefully while the plants are
still alive, growing and/or producing. For some places, dolomitic limestone
is the wrong thing and regular limestone is preferred (there is such a
thing as too much calcium and magnesium, as well as other nutrients).

I know I'm sounding like a broken record, but this kind of discussion is
one reason I so thoroughly believe (and highly recommend) that people get
soil tests before they start doing anything in the garden, and get the
local county extension agent's input on amendments for soil. Conditions
vary so much between here and there. And I really do think it's dangerous
to just take advice for how to correct /amend yor soil from written
sources, whether on this list or in books or articles.

For example, I've read all kinds of things be added to clay, some of them
would be good here in my area, and some of them not. I've seen gypsum
recommended -- not good here. I've seen peat moss recommended, which adds
to the acidity (though perhaps only slightly, but that needs to be taken
into account). I've seen sand recommended, but that can make things worse
(that's how you make bricks!), and in any case has to be quite coarse if
used. Wood ashes are highly alkaline, and should be fine on acidic soil,
but their application is a little more problematic -- difficult to know how
much to use. And it might be difficult to find enough of them, unless you
*grow your own.* And how do you take things back if you add too much or the
wrong thing? 

That's one of my problems. I've followed some of the *advice* I've read out
there (and earlier on this list) and added stuff I really shouldn't have,
or perhaps in the wrong amounts. I have two 4 ft. sq. beds, 8 to 12 inches
deep, that I have to tear completely apart and do over because the
amendments I added to the native soil made them unworkable -- water won't
penetrate all the peat I added (according to the *recipe* I followed), and
it is probably too acidic. Things simply won't grow in there. I'd have
almost been better off with that ole red Georgia clay, unamended, or at
least not much worse off given the time and effort that went into these two
beds in the first place. LOL -- I don't mind living and learning, I DO mind
physically laboring and learning, not to mention the attendant gardening
failures.  :-(

>Well, I actually LIKE to be corrected, when it is done nicely.  I like to
>LEARN!!!  Funny, PTSD or what... I dunno, but like Farmer John said...
>"You have NO idea how it [arguments] affects me."
>A fun 'arguement,' is different of course.

Hope I didn't come on too strong. I think we MOST certainly can (and
should) talk about soil amendments, but I also believe (to repeat myself),
that individual soils can be so different that it takes a local expert. If
we're going to go to all the trouble (time, energy, physical effort, money)
to try to make the soil right, might as well have the right recipe for our
own individual soil. 

>My N,P,K,pH test kit does each of the 4 tests, 10x, for $15 total.  CA has no
>Ag agent.  Crude test I hear, so I am very careful in using it.

That's really a shame, no ag agent. I am increasingly impressed with how
much value the extension service programs provide, and increasingly
appreciative of them. Publications galore, research, personal advice for
the home gardener and commercial farmer alike, soil testing, insect and
disease ID and research, Master Gardener programs (and a great deal of good
done through that alone), timely articles in local papers, suggestions on
plant material best suited to the area, plant clinics at flower shows and
such, local talks and workshops, GREAT internet sites around the country
simply loaded with information, on and on. Good people, excellent program.
Can only get better, especially as more and more organically-oriented
gardeners ask questions of their agents and go through Master Gardening
programs. 

Anyway, Bill, perhaps you could find out from some ag folks at one of your
universities where to get a good, reliable soil test done? No doubt there
are commercial labs that will do that. I guess you could say my philosophy
these days is: Soil Test -- don't garden without it. <g>

Best,

Patricia
West Georgia, Zone 7b


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