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Re: Contaminated bone meal

Square Foot Gardening List - http://www.flinet.com/~gallus/sqft.html

Thank you for the clarifications, Janet. Always good to have an expert handy when
these issues arise.

I am leery of dire warnings that are spread "because I saw something about it on
some news show a few years ago" ... it sounds too much like every other hoax on
the Internet ("Febreze will kill your pets!" "This e-mail will destroy your hard
drive!" "Send this e-mail to your friends and Bill Gates will send you to
Disneyworld!")  The intent of the sender is a usually good one, certainly, but is
often misguided.

So the conclusions I reached were based on what research I could find from
official sources such as the CDC. It does seem, from what you say, that there is
cause for concern. However, that's true for just about everything these days, it
seems (the Joe Jackson song "Everything Gives You Cancer" song is running through
my head).

I figure the odds of actually contracting CJE from the bone meal I use are
infintessimally smaller than the likelihood that I will become a highway
statistic. I'm not about to give up my job to avoid the daily commute, though.
There comes a point when it's just not worth it to live your life in fear of
everything.

That said, there's an article on BBC online today that I just happened to stumble
across completely coincidentally: "BSE 'may never have posed human danger.'"
(http://news2.thdo.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/newsid_345000/345990.stm) The
conclusions are speculative, and a minority opinion, but of interest nonetheless.
(That page also contains links to a number of other news stories and Internet
resources about CJE and BSD.)

I suppose it's now time to don my flame-proof suit, eh?

Happy gardening, all.

Kitt





Janet Wintermute wrote:

> Square Foot Gardening List - http://www.flinet.com/~gallus/sqft.html
>
> At 10:24 PM 5/16/99 EDT, Lisa Viger wrote:
>
> >     The above is the same for people. The "infectious" agent (actually a
> >prion, which is a piece of protein which has not been decided if it meets the
> >crtiteria of being alive or not) isn't exactly "infectious." It's caused by
> >eating meat from an animal which has eaten what is described above. The prion
> >which causes BSE cannot reproduce, so the effects are cumulative. IOW, you
> >may ingest, say, 100 BSE prions in your burger tomorrow (if that cow had also
> >ingested the BSE prions). It may not cause any problems. If you ate that same
> >number every day, eventually you'd have enough of the prions to literally
> >bounce around in your brain making a significant number of holes (hence, the
> >"spongiform" part.....the brains of infected animals and people have holes in
> >them like are in a sponge). And Janet, correct me please if I'm wrong in my
> >understanding of BSE.
>
> Can't say as I've ever heard it explained like this.
>
> If we accept the hypothesis that scrapie in sheep (a *very* old disease, in
> the UK for more than 250 years) becomes BSE in cattle when the cattle eat
> protein-enhanced foods made from scrapie-killed sheep, then we must accept
> the notion that prions can be KILLED.
>
> Here's why:
>
> Scrapie has been around basically forever in the British Isles, and
> protein-enhanced cattle feed has been around for decades (plural), some of
> it made from scrapied sheep.  But before the mid 1980's, rendering processes
> in Britain combined heat and chemical solvents (not unlike those used at the
> dry cleaners' and equally dangerous for people to be around).  During that
> period, British cattle were not coming down with BSE.
>
> But then the rendering rules changed to eliminate the "solvent extraction
> method" and get rid of those nasty petrochemical solvents, to protect
> rendering plant workers.
>
> Shortly after that, cows in the UK began to get BSE.
>
> It would appear, then, that the combination of heat plus solvent was
> sufficient to KILL the scrapie/BSE-causing prions but heat alone (the
> current regime) is not enough.
>
> It seems to me that if prions can be killed, they must perforce be alive.
> However, if it's true that they cannot reproduce (first time I've heard that
> part), certainly they are operating under a different understanding of the
> word "alive" than you and I are.
>
> The idea of them pinging around inside brain tissue, making holes, sounds
> bizarre.
>
> It might be useful to find out if the New Guinea women who died of kuru
> after consuming the brains of their dead (and spongiform-infected) relatives
> got sick after just one of these ritual meals or required many such
> exposures to the kuru agent (per Lisa's suggested profile).
>
> >     Lovely, something else to worry about! As far as deciding whether or not
> >to use bonemeal in the US, I think the fact the FDA has quietly taken gelatin
> >(made from bones and connective tissue leftovers) off their "Generally
> >Regarded as Safe" list, says quite a bit.
>
> Speaks volumes to me!
>
> >     I wish I was as eloquent as Janet! But, I won't be using bone or blood
> >meal in my garden.
>
> Thanks, Lisa.  You may be newer to the list than my last set of posts about
> BSE (prolly 6-8 months ago).  I'm a writer/editor in the Legislative &
> Public Affairs shop at USDA-APHIS.
>
> In fact, this will have to be my last on the subject for a bit.  I'm headed
> to Minneapolis Monday morning on business.  Back onlist Friday night.
>
> --Janet
>
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