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Re: Urine in compost heaps.

Square Foot Gardening List - http://myweb.flinet.com/~gallus/sqft.html

Many thanks for the detailed description of it's use. Without going into
great detail on such a personal subject I reckon I produce about 2 pints per
24 hours, can I therefore use that amount daily through the winter or can
one overdose a compost heap which is 6 foot by 3 foot by 5 foot tall and
absolutely packed with cardboard, kitchen waste, newspaper, horse manure and
stable waste and garden green refuse.

Apologies to the list if I seem to be labouring the point, but am reluctant
to waste such a valuable commodity and gee it don't half save on fresh water
through the closet.

John Harris
Norfolk,
England.

----- Original Message -----
From: Keith Addison <keith@journeytoforever.org>
To: Square Foot Gardening List <sqft@listbot.com>
Sent: 13 October 2000 13:30
Subject: Re: Urine in compost heaps.


> Square Foot Gardening List - http://myweb.flinet.com/~gallus/sqft.html
>
> Both links work John, I checked them first. But sure, here's what they
say.
>
> Keith Addison
> Journey to Forever
> Handmade Projects
> Tokyo
> http://journeytoforever.org/
>
>
> >Keith
> >
> >Sorry could not open the sites you mentioned, would welcome a precis of
> >answer to my quaetion.
> >
> >
> >Many thanks,
> >
> >
> >John
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Keith Addison <keith@journeytoforever.org>
> >To: Square Foot Gardening List <sqft@listbot.com>
> >Sent: 12 October 2000 02:18
> >Subject: Re: Urine in compost heaps.
> >
> >
> > > >In some books one sees the use of urine recommended as an activator
on
> > > >compost heaps.
> > > >
> > > >Does anyone follow this practice and if so, what quantities are
> >considered
> > > >adequate
> > > >
> > > >John Harris
>
>
> Making compost - Adding liquids (scroll down):
> http://journeytoforever.org/compost_make.html
>
> Adding liquids
>
> The best form of liquid addition for compost is what some composters
> primly call Household Compost Activator. Other people call it urine.
> Don't be coy about it -- this is what should happen to urine rather
> than wasting it by flushing it down the toilet. Develop a
> self-righteous attitude about not wasting it -- but don't shout about
> it too loud, modern city people like neighbours and so on can be
> funny about these things, what they don't know won't hurt them.
>
> First, urine is sterile. Second, it contains the drainage of every
> cell in the body -- it's crammed with minerals and vitamins. Third,
> it contains a lot of nitrogen -- that's one reason that it's silly to
> buy nitrogen (there are others).
>
> It shouldn't prove too difficult to arrange to have a few litres of
> Household Compost Activator set by when it's time to make the
> compost. You can use it neat, or mix it 50-50 with water, and add a
> capful of seaweed emulsion while you're at it. Use a sprinkling can.
>
> For further information and reassurance on this matter:
> http://gate.gtz.de/gate_mag/gate_95_3/texte/focus_7.html#noframes
>
>
>
> See Container Farming - Organic food production in slums of Mexico
> City by Rodrigo A. Medellín Erdmann
> http://gate.gtz.de/gate_mag/gate_95_3/texte/focus_7.html#noframes
>
> Container Farming
>
> Organic food production in slums of Mexico City
> by Rodrigo A. Medellín Erdmann
>
> By the middle of the 1990s, forty million Mexicans - nearly half the
> total population - fell below the poverty line. And of these at least
> 15 million live in extreme poverty - above all in urban marginal
> areas like the slums of Mexico City. Some seven years ago ANADEGES a
> group of some 20 autonomous NGOs launched a project to help the
> people there to develop their own autonomous capacity to produce food
> organically in small backyards or patios, balconies, roof tops - as a
> way to partially counteract the poverty being imposed upon them.
>
> The technology had to address four constraints: little or no land,
> little or no investment in infrastructure, no purchase of chemical
> inputs and be light weight for roof top cultivation.
>
> Three years were spent in a quasi-experimental stage. It is important
> to point out that these experiments were actually a trial and error
> process by an amateur with no agronomic training. An expert would
> have probably taken a much shorter time. On the other hand, an expert
> agronomist would probably not have dared to experiment with such
> lowly technology. During the last four years, the project has been
> introduced to several hundred families in six different slum areas of
> the city.
>
> The starting point was a cultivation technology developed by Dr.
> Barbara Daniels in California, USA, in a nutshell: vegetables are
> grown in drainless containers ideally with 18 to 20 liters capacity -
> stuffed with deciduous tree leaves or grass clippings up to 4/5ths of
> their capacity, topped by a three to five centimeter layer of good
> soil, where seeds are planted, or seedlings are transplanted. On the
> wall of the container, five to ten centimeters from the bottom, a
> hole is bored for drainage the container thus maintains a water
> reservoir at the bottom. Finally, a stick is inserted right down to
> the bottom, that is used to measure the containers humidity as you
> would the oil in a car. A container thus prepared, weighs far less
> than one filled with regular soil.
>
> The best organic fertilizer: urine
>
> The key to this technology is fertilization. While chemical
> fertilizers can be used, Dr.Daniels suggests a much better
> alternative: an organic, domestically produced high power fertilizer.
> Regarding fertilizer, considering the expense of commercially
> prepared fertilizers, the amount needed for a full-size deck garden
> and the fact that many of them dont work well, I have found that
> urine is the best fertilizer for this system. The decaying leaf
> medium breaks it down almost instantly so that there is never any
> odor, and germ survival in material such as this has been shown to be
> practically nil. We call this liquid organic fertilizer (LOF).
>
> The LOF, a key element in this technology, is abundant, with no cost,
> and easy to manufacture.
>
> For several years the aim was to obtain empirical results in terms of
> low cost organic production of vegetables. During this time no
> thought was given to scientific experimentation. Consequently the
> results were gradually observed and understood in a merely empirical
> fashion, with little quantified data. We arrived at five main
> findings:
>
> 1. Plants grew more rapidly, bigger and healthier than those
> grown with conventional agricultural techniques. Less water was
> needed.
> 2. In the case of plants that produce edible leaves lettuce,
> spinach, Swiss chard, chives, parsley, quintoniles (Amaranthus
> hybridus), quelites (Chenoponium album), verdolagas (Portulaca
> oleracea) and all types of herbs - the produce was outstanding.
> Leaves were big and bright dark green in color. Particularly
> remarkable was the nopal (Opuntia sp.), a cactus with big, green,
> prickly, pallet-like edible leaves actually transformed stems, tender
> and fleshy (pencas in Spanish) very much appreciated in Mexico. It
> has excellent nutritious value it has been called the Aztec beefsteak
> and serves as a natural medicine for example, for diabetes.
> 3. Some fruit bearing plants, specially hot peppers essential in
> the Mexican diet grew well and produced abundantly; but were not as
> hot as those conventionally grown.
> 4. Other fruit-bearing plants did beautifully in their early
> stages, but rather poorly in terms of fruits. Such was the case of
> tomatoes, green tomatoes (Physalis pubescens), squash, beans,
> cauliflower, cucumber.
> 5. Some experimentation was made with root plants, but not much,
> since the containers being used had a relatively small diameter, and
> could accommodate too few plants. There were good results with
> rad-ishes. However, people would certainly be interested in onion and
> garlic. Carrots are usually so inexpensive in the market, it is not
> cost effective to cultivate them.
>
>
> Other intriguing features: all plants did particularly well in their
> early stages; they proved remarkably resistant to insects, pests and
> diseases.
>
> A warm bed for the plants
>
> The next stage was to understand these first results, and to look for
> ways of improving them. In short:
>
> * LOF was an excellent source of nitrogen (N), readily
> absorbable by the plant. This was why the leaves did so well.
> * In this technology there was a deficiency of phosphorus (P)
> and potassium (K); no idea about minor nutrients;
> * The initial process inside the container was a very intensive
> anaerobic composting, which raises temperatures this acted as a warm
> bed that helped plants in their early growing stages.
>
>
> More puzzling was the resistance of plants to pests and diseases. In
> one instance, a set of tomato plants was growing near a tree heavily
> infested with the white fly. Many of these insects would fly around
> the plants ordinarily so prone to being attacked by them but not one
> landed on the leaves. They simply flew back to the tree. Eventually,
> an article in a German scientific journal gave us the clue. The
> composting process taking place inside the container produced
> substances that helped the plants become not only stronger, but also
> resistant to pests. An added bonus.
>
> At the end of a year, the composted leaves had turned into a
> beautiful, rich soil. Each container produced enough soil to supply
> the top five centimeter layer in ten new containers, or for any other
> use.
>
> If the technology was to be really useful to people, the missing
> elements had to befound. What was needed was a cheap, abundant,
> readily available, organic source of P and K, like we already had of
> N. Furthermore, these two major nutrients had to be immediately
> absorbable by plants, since their life cycle was so short: three or
> four months. It was not the case of some organic matter that could be
> mixed with soil to be decomposed over several months or years.
>
> As is usually the case, the solution was found by chance, to a
> certain extent. For other reasons Anadeges began to experiment with
> worm raising, the type that process organic waste red worms (Eisenia
> foetida). Eventually we realized their castings were exactly what we
> were looking for. They contain the P and K the plants need, readily
> absorbable, and can be produced abundantly and at no cost by the
> families themselves. Between LOF, worm castings and decaying leaves,
> plants also have enough minor nutrients. An additional environmental
> bonus: kitchen refuse could be recycled, instead of thrown into the
> garbage.
>
> The aim of the project was to benefit families. Consequently, it was
> proposed to them once results were sufficiently satisfactory, without
> waiting for perfection. The lack of organic P and K was temporarily
> supplied with chemical fertilizers. It was important to checkup on
> their acceptance specially of LOF. In the last four years, the
> project was implemented among several hundred families in six slum
> areas of Mexico City.
>
> For this stage, the project received partial financial support from
> GATE-ISAT in Germany and the St. Nikolaus Foundation in Sweden. A
> Mexican chain of supermarkets agreed to give the project all their
> used containers we had to collect them and clean them which was a
> great boost. We tried, but could not get any support from local
> Mexican government agencies at that time.
>
> The projects lessons
>
>
> LOF was easily accepted, even though it was a conclusion reached
> through a quasi-maieutic dialogue: "We can make an agreement with
> mother earth, to give her what we no longer need, and ask her to
> provide us with what we need. What is it that we no longer need?
> etc"; along with a medical explanation confirming that urine is a
> clean and pure substance, and properly fermented is harmless.
>
> To be constant in the care of a vegetable garden specially to
> overcome the difficulties in the early stages - people need to have
> more than one of the following motivations, amongst others:
>
> * availability of food to improve nutrition,
> * economic savings
> * a nice hobby for the whole family
> * healthier, fresher organic food
> * recuperation of agricultural skills - most elders come from
> rural communities
> * closer contact with nature
> * increased political independence from government assistance
> * ecological concerns: recycling of garbage, containers
> * plants as house ornaments
> * relaxation from urban stress
> * friendship and meetings with other women raising plants.
>
>
> People were willing to pay a price equivalent to costs for the
> implementing agency. In turn, during the first year families should
> harvest produce at least equivalent to the price they paid. This
> would eventually make the project self-financing.
>
> It was mostly women that were interested in container vegetable
> gardening. And it is always a community activity. Besides food
> plants, women from slum areas began to request ornamental flowers and
> trees. We readily complied.
>
> It is important to work in an organized context, so the implementing
> agency does not need to bear the burden of organizing people.
>
> There should be relative tranquillity in the community, for people to
> dedicate enough time to their gardens. If there is political or other
> kind of unrest, people tend to be distracted and disregard their
> plants.
>
> Conclusions
>
> Further experimentation with the more complete fertilization system
> is necessary. In this context, soil pH is a variable that has to be
> better understood. We also plan more experimentation with worm feed
> to include substances that could increase the percentage of P and K
> in the castings.
>
> The project will expand to many more families and slum areas. At this
> stage some form of government support is likely, to open new areas,
> and to tackle other aspects of the project such as:
>
> * Utilization of discarded tires turned inside out, to be used
> as wide mouth containers with greater capacity excellent for root
> plants. This would also address a staggering ecological problem in a
> city like Mexico with literally mountains of used tires.
> * A shift from an artisan to an industrial production system
> with several production lines: plants, containers, worms, tires. A
> drive to reach the financial break-even point, and achieve
> self-financing for the whole operation.
> * Start experimenting with backyard animals.
>
>
> The project has been successful in perfecting a technology to
> cultivate vegetables in containers organically, with no industrial
> external inputs - by utilizing readily available, zero-cost waste
> matter and discarded containers. It is a sustainable urban
> agriculture system easy to expand, that can help people recover their
> autonomous capacity to reach a certain degree of self-sufficiency in
> food production. But much more needs to be done.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Notes:
>
> Barbara Daniels, Growing Plants in Containers: new guidelines for a
> deck garden. Multicopied. Fairfax, Ca., 1981. On several occasions
> the project tried to get in touch with Dr. Daniels, but could never
> locate her.
>
> Tränkner, Andreas, Kompostextrakte kontra Schadenpilze, in Garten
> Organisch, 4/1990, pp. 13-15.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Rodrigo A. Medellín Erdmann is a sociologist who has been working
> with campesino and Indian communities and organizations in Mexico
> since 1974. He is a co-worker of ANADEGES - "Autonomy,
> Dezentralization and Self-management" - created in 1982. One of the
> institutions of the group, Cedicar, manages the project described
> here.
>
>
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