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Re: Thornbird Seedling

  • Subject: Re: [iris-photos] Thornbird Seedling
  • From: "Neil A Mogensen" neilm@charter.net
  • Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 17:25:20 -0500

If you are thinking of some of the circus-striped plicatas of George Sutton, I suspect they are what I am referring to as possibly the complex interaction between Umbrata and plicata.  I won't know until some test crosses involving plicata and Umbrata bloom, and those crosses aren't even made yet.
The Thornbird seedling doesn't come from plicata ancestry, although that means nothing.  Plicata variants can pop up anywhere.
In Wilma Vallette's book (which I have on loan and can't reference at the moment) she mentions her tests of glaciata Matterhorn) and amoena, looking to see if there were common ground between the recessive whites.  She also made crosses involving a recessive white from blues (White Satin) that is related to LADY BLUEBEARD--being a sibling of Sun Lakes.
The white of each of the three appeared to be genetically unrelated.  She doesn't say more about what the plicata/amoena cross produced.  I'd like to have seen descriptions of the entire cross.
Another place where plicata and Umbrata cross paths is in the ancestry of SEASHELL, where a variegata and a plicata were crossed.  I don't know if Loomis' records tell about the results, but Seashell itself has what appears to be a pale Umbrata overlay on the fall.  No sign of interaction with the pl allelic series shows in the cv.
Every shade of variation from the kind of veining in Bob's seedling from Thornbird up to and including solid fall spots with a band of varying width (and even some where the band is invisibly narrow if present) with veining extending out from the beard area not at all, some, some more, some more yet covering almost all of the fall and becoming solid at the edge, with the edge border, and then those that are veined all the way   The same range of variation can and does appear in diploids.
The Asiatic tetraploids also seem to have the solid version of the fall overlay--as in AMAS.  None of these, diploid or tet., have plicata genetics expressed as far as one can tell.
However, when the *standards* have plicata patterning and the fall has the butterfly wing effect, that looks at first glance to me to be an interaction between two discrete allelic series.  It will take some test crosses to check this out, and that hasn't been done to my knowledge.  I'll share what I learn when this is tested.
I'm also wondering just where, if at all, the L&S series from Joe Ghio primarily, which includes some that are radiating-vein patterned partly or extensively (as in EXPOS…) fits into this.  I have a few seedlings which I expect to bloom that have an Umbrata-expressed pod parent X IMPULSIVE, one parent of Exposť.  Hopefully that will point in the direction to go with this question, or it may not.
Neil Mogensen

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