Re: Re: Re: *germanica*

Hi again,
 
I had not gotten Robert's last note on the subject when I wrote my last one.  As usual, Robert's is very well stated. 
 
Robert's note got me checking into the ages of the names I. trojana, I. amasiana, and others.  I thought I had checked it out before and the oldest of all of them was I. trojana, but I wanted to be certain that I had't left I. amasiana out of the consideration - I hadn't.  Here's what I came up with.  I. trojana wins.  There could be other older names out there that I've missed, but so far trojana is the first published for the undoubted tetraploid TB's of the "germanica" group. 
 
I. kashmiriana comes in as older though, and as I recall some clones are tetraploid and some are 44 chromosome plants.  I personally don't know which type is the originally named type, and I haven't grown any with this name yet.  I don't really know if tetraploid "kashmiriana" belong in this group at all.  I think it would be ironic if the oldest name for the group turns out to be one of the transplants that was moved out of its home region in ancient times. 
 
There has been some disagreement about the kinship of I. croatica too (not to mention misidentified plants widespread in cultivation); maybe I. croatica is something intermediate to the Near Eastern tetraploid TB types and I. aphylla???  Of course this name is relatively new, and not really in the running as the oldest.
 
Then there's I. junonia.  This is the oldest of the lot that I've found, but what is it?  Again there seems to be great debate.  The plant usually called I. junonia these days may not be the same as the original, which apparently may have been the same as I. bilouini, if so, then the oldest name for the group may be I. junonia.
 
Here are the citations as I was able to find them.  These are from the 'International Plant Name Index'.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Was I. askabadensis published as a species?  I can't find it in botanical listings.  A cultivar name?  I did find it as "collected in 1914".
 
Didn't find a date on I. ricardii either. Just "I. ricardii Hort."
 
The following were perhaps field collected too?
 

?Ricardii Alba?                  ?48                TB, white

                (I. mesopotamica)

 

?Tarsus?                             ?48                TB, ?medium blue?

                (?I. cypriana?; collected, Tarsus)

 
The following cultivars would appear to be derived from crossing wild tetraploid TB Iris, but they are not technically derived from wild populations.  However, if their parents are to be considered the same species, then they would all be "pure breds".  There are probably a number more, but one parent is often just listed as "TB", so it's uncertain how "pure" they really are.
 

?Angelo?                             ?48 chromosomes    TB, ?medium blue bicolor?

                (I. trojana × ?Amas?; 1920)

 

?Anne Bullen?                    ?48                TB, blue-lavender & purple bitone; beard orange

                (I. trojana × ?Amas?; 1922)

 

?Arac?                                  ?48                TB, ?medium blue bicolor?

                (?Amas? × I. cypriana; 1907)

 

?Jeannie?                             ?48                 TB, light red-toned self

                (?Ricardii? × I. junonia; probably in the sense of Dykes, which was I. bilouini; 1920)

 

?Lady Grey?                        ?48                 TB, ?medium blue bitone?

                (I. trojana × ?Amas?; 1919)

 

?Magnifica?                          60, 62            TB, biolet bitone; beard white tipped orange

                (?Ricardii? × ?Amas?; 1919)

 

?Oriflamme?                          48                  TB, red-violet bitone,  or? TB, violet bitone; beard bluish tipped orange

                (?Erebe? × ?Macrantha?, 1904)      

 

?Sarpedon?                          ?48                 TB, violet bitone; beard white tipped yellow

                (I. trojana × ?Amas?; 1907 [or ?  ?I. pallida? × ?Dalmatica?])

 

?Speed?                                ?48                 TB, blue-lavender over purple bitone

                (I. trojana × ?Amas?)

 

I couldn't find parentage of the following, but they are often listed as cultivars of I. trojana.

 

?Trocelestial?                       TB, ?light blue self?

                (1912)

 

?Tromagnifica?                     TB, ?light blue self?

                (= I. trojana var. magnifica; 1912)

 

?Tropallida?                          TB, ?light blue self?

                (= I. trojana var. pallida)

 

?Trosuperba?                        TB, ?light blue self?

                (1912)

 
 
 
Dave

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