A couple of hints on crossing tet pollen onto dips. Catch the flower
as
it is just opening. force it open and then pollinate. afterwards,
remove
the falls. This will solve problem of bees interferring with
whatyou are
doing.
Be aware that you can get some triploids this way, and they are
usually
sterile.
I still think your two postings are totally
diploid, from stray pollen.
No indication of any other genetics in their
phenotype.
A lot of these seeds fail to germinate because of the
endosperm
problem. This can be overcome with using an agar germinating
medium,
and peeling seeds. Some data in old BAIS journals on how to do
this.
A lot of work initially.
As for tet X dip crosses check"The
World Of Irises" detailing history
of development of tetraploid
iris.
Thanks Vickie for update. on Tet SDBs. There also is Gnu
Generation
that is genetically 8/12/12/12 that was introduced as an SDB
because of
it's usually height, and as it was a BC. Generally any stunted
IBs
just don't compete with SDB in form and vigour. Same with tall MDBs.
They just don't mach SDB in vigour or flower form. That is why almost
all SDB are 8/8/12/12
Loic, look up amphidiploid in "The World Of
Irises" It will give you
some understanding of the genetic stability of
SDB plants , and the
hybrid vigour, in this very strong and vigourously
growing plant
Chuck Chapman
Re: HYB Mystery solved
Posted
by: "loic tasquier"
tasquierloic@cs.com
tasquierloic
Wed
May 21, 2008 9:28 pm (PDT)
Thanks a lot Chuck, you make me feel better
!
The 2 crosses might finally be what i thought they were, (which
proves
that i haven't totally lost my marbles yet...), and even though
they
are not a miracle, i kind of got lucky !
Yesterday, i
pollinated all the MTBs opened with REB-TB pollen, always
keeping in mind
my small-flowered-reblooming-medians project...
Of course,
there won't be many pods, nor many seeds in the rare pods
that will take,
nor much germination later... but the happy few that
will eventually bloom
will be SO precious to my eyes, they will be
worth the effort I'm
sure.
And i LOVE challenges!
This project doesn't need much
room, since poor germination implies few
seedlings, so this challenge
could be even shared by people with
smaller gardens.
It would be
great to be many more to work in this direction, and so
easy to share the
results and even pictures thanks to this forum.
Hope the 'Beating the
Odds' game will appeal to many of
you.
Loïc
----------------------------------------------
Loïc
TASQUIER
zone 7 - Nederland
Email : tasquierloic@cs.com
-----
Original Message -----
From: irischapman@aim.com
To: iris-photos@yahoogroups.com
Sent:
Thursday, May 22, 2008 3:40 AM
Subject: [iris-photos] Re: HYB Mystery
solved
Actually both of these crosses with MTB pod parents look like
they
have MTB on both parents side of the parentage.
They both
have typical MTB forms and show no influence from hoped
for
parent.
It is very possible to produce seeds from a crosss
of a tet and a
biploid parent. It hapens much more readily from tet
pollen on
biploid
pod parent. This is a result of a tendency of the
pod parent to
produce a certain small percentage of unreduced gamettes.
This is a
result of erors in the reproductive cell division. I know of
no
reason of why there should be any difference between SDB and
TB
parents. But in any case I have made several tet TB on dip
MTB
crosses that worked, with iris. You know you have a take from
looking
at the seeds. There are very few seeds in the pod, and they
often are
initially larger then the dip produces. I say initially
larger as
sometimes the endosperm (seed nourishment material) dies off
as the
seeds mature. I won't fgo into the reason for this, but it is
an
intersting part of the pollination process.
Some of the seeds
will germinate, but many more don't.
Last year I made about 40 crosses
of tet daylily pollon on a dip
daylily.(the equivalent of TB X MTB
cross) About 15 pods formed.
About 1-4 seeds per pod as versus normal
count of about 15-40. Of
these seeds only about 5-6 remained plump, the
others became very
flat, with lack of endosperm tissue. Two germinated.
Others who have
made tet on dip daylily crosses get about the same.
allthough they
don't report a high a percentage of flat
seeds.
There are genetic papers and data in books supporting what I'm
saying,
as well as personal experience. My first attempt was done
in
ignorence. the rest after I read the scientific
literature.
As far as I know, all SDB are 8/8/12/12. There may be a few
rare
exceptions, but very rare. Smooth, an SDB introduced by Craig
is
eported to be 12/12/12/12/ . SDB produce gamettes of 8/12 based
on
their amphidiploid composition and all seedlings from SDB X SDB
will
have 8/8/12/12 composition.
You do have variations in MDB
and IB as some 8/8/12/12 plants can be
MDB in height and some can be IB
in height.
Chuck Chapman
