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Re:Cartenoid Plicatas
  • Subject: Re:Cartenoid Plicatas
  • From: irischapman@aim.com
  • Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 10:52:50 -0400


 Thanks for the smaller picture and the  explanation

No question of having plicata on both  sides of parentage.

The  orange one that shows up in middle of the pictures, is lovely, and very clearly shows  a cartenoid plicata pattern.

It is hard to see dotting on the other two. In these crosses  you can get Terry Joyce style rims, and   it can be hard to seperate them from plicata marking at times. They can even have these Joyce Terry rims with light  plicata markings on top, which can be deceiving. I have worked these type  of crosses for over 15  years, so I'm familiar with them. A closer shot of rims of these other two might help.

Where there some traditional  anthocyanin plicatas in cross?

But, I sure like that orange one. That is one that I would buy in a flash if it was introduced.

Chuck Chapman

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Archer <pharcher@mindspring.com>
To: iris-photos <iris-photos@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, May 16, 2010 8:53 am
Subject: [iris-photos] (unknown)

Here are the smaller pics for all to see.

Chuck asked...

Could you also post full parentage and and explanation of why you think these are plicatas, and not some other cartenoid pattern.

Chuck Chapman

These are plicatas because the carotenoids present are directly associated with anthocyanins in the same cell space when they are both present. When they are crossed with anthocyanin plicatas the flowers have carotenoid spots that merge with the anthocyanin spots. It depends on if the anthocyanin parent carries the carotenoid plicata genes or not. So far they seem to inherited together quite often but sometimes they do break. Also, I have been selecting the line to be sure they have dotting on the inside of the standards. Some anthocyanin plicatas are like that as well. some have almost no dotting on their standards and distinct dotting on their falls.

The first two are dotted on the insides and the dotting continues onto the falls just as in most anthocyanin plicatas. They are also a result of the reduced production of anthocyanin. Very often they have a muddiness or tint caused by anthocyanin precursors and co-factors that diappears just before or after they open that fades as in 'Immortality' or others.

These are all derived from 'Beverly Sills' which is one parent of 'Light Beam' which display the pattern also. 'Beverly Sill' is only a carrier for the carotenid plicata. The other parent of 'Light Beam' is 'Broadway' which shows the dotting on the inside of the standards. The yellow dotting on the falls is masked by or comprises part of the red dotting on the fall edges of 'Broadway'. 'Light Beam' is not in the parentage of any of these however as it would not produce in the direction I wanted it to. Although I do have a few good seedlings to work with later down the line.

The parentge of pic 1 is (Beverly Sills x (Good Show x(Chicasaw Sue X Schiaparelli)sib 1 x sib 2

The parentage of pics 2 and 3 is Beverly Sills x (Beverly Sills x (Good Show x(Chicasaw Sue X Schiaparelli)):sib 1 .

'Chicasaw Sue' also displays a similar pattern to 'Broadway' just in orange and red and is recessive for lycopene. 'Schiaparelli' is also a carrier for the pattern since I got two carotenoid plicatas when crossed with 'Chicasaw Sue'.

Crossing these to 'Good Show' I got one heavily dotted orange seedling. Crossing this seedling to 'Beverly Sills' gave me two heavily orange dotted seedlings that I sibbed. These produced pic #1 with a more defined border of dots on the falls and light dotting on the inside base of the standards.

I have other carotenoid plicatas from other lines but all of them are yellow tones and of course some of the newer Introductions from other hybridizers but they are nowhere near pink. Tetraploid TB's are not the only ones to exibit this trait. 'Snickerdoodle' does (I believe it is a diploid and a much older cultivar), but it has a little bit of brown to muddy it up.

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