Re: HYB: tiny rhizomes

Wow!  That's pretty small foliage!  But it bloomed?  A foot tall 
stalk sounds pretty tall for that foliage.  I guess the bloom was 
well out of the fan?  Was the bloom TB size or in proportion to the 
stalk?  This is interesting.  I haven't really had anything like 
that in TB crosses - at least that survived long enough for me to 
identify it.  

There would definitely be TB ancestors from the AB side.  PINK 
FORMAL for one, one just listed as TB in an AB seedling, and one I 
think probably is a TB - GARDEN GOLD - but could be another bearded 
type other than TB or AB.  If it's a TB, it would be an intro prior 
to 1960, I think, and I don't have the R&I that would cover it.  

As I said earlier, any intro from Rich tends to be complicated.  
Here's the pedigree given for DESERT MOONLIGHT:

R73-59 (R69-203L, onco hybrid x Garden Gold) X R73-176H:((R69-108A:
(onco x TB) x Welcome Reward) x (Welcome Reward xRR64-23A: (onco x 
AB))).

Some arilbred folks are pretty well versed in interpreting those 
seedling numbers.  Francesca can do it especially well for a couple 
of hybridizers.  Sharon McAllister is another.  I get too frustrated 
trying to unearth them and then have failed to keep up with some 
I've tried to trace.  PINK FORMAL comes via WELCOME REWARD.  DM is 
officially an OGB type, but I think for practical purposes and 
possibly in reality, it's really an OB.  Not too many of those.  The 
only possible source for regelia in the pedigree is the 'AB' and DM 
would have been classed as an OGB because of that unknown 
parentage.  Rich worked with onco derivatives a lot, so I think the 
possibility is pretty good that the AB did not have regelia.

Depending on the oncos here, they could well be coming from very 
small plants and rhizomes. If those were matching up with ancestral 
dwarf genes from the TBs, then it could well result in the tiny 
plant and rhizomes.

My own theory is less optimistic.  Too often on TB X AB seedlings, 
there is just enough to allow chromosomes to pair and produce a 
plant, but the match isn't really compatible.  The result is 
seedlings that are non-starters (they will continually put on new 
leaves but never get bigger than a month old seedling and never 
increase - they can exist this way for several years and never go 
anywhere), streaked, variegated foliage (attractive but generally 
not hardy under my conditons and rarely will survive the first 
summer on their own)and lots of seedlings that twin, or triple the 
fans in some kind of division process (these often will make full 
sized fans and then bloom out because they didn't put on normal 
increase - some will ultimately increase normally, but many never do 
no matter how well the plant has grown and many of these don't 
survive the process of dividing because it seems to take an 
extraordinary amount of energy).  So I have to suspect this plant is 
yet another result of chromosomes that were not fully compatible.

Donald
 





 
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