Re: RE: pallida and variegata distribution

I got those reference but haven't got the articles yet. Here are a couple more articles. I. pseudopallida doesn't seem to have any official status as of yet. 
The cengialti photo was from an image search on google. I had the idea it was associated with the plant survey of Mount Cengialti , but I'm not certain.
I would like to check out the plant foliage with paper chromatography and compare with variegata reginea, pallida dalmatica (wild collected) and cengialti. 
I've sent out a request to the Croatian Botanical gardens for further information but no reply as of yet.

Iris variegata reginea seems to like mountain areas, unlike variegata which seems to prefer open woodland environment. More information on its distribution may place it with some overlap with pallida, and we know pallida and variegata readily form natural hybrids. It would be interesting to know if the Croatian botonists had looked at this possibility.

Th differences between violet and, as in the photo of cengialti , and purple as in Loppio, Munich Blue, Mostar, pseudopallida , would seem to involve the inclusion of Anthocyanin Vascular Inclusions, which seems to be under control of a different gene then regular violet and perhaps different again from pallida blue. Its what enables us to have black iris. As I have looked at the species that have this gene it would seem as if they only have  this form of pigment and not this as well as one of the lighter anthocyanin pigments. When they do have both, the AVI is present only in a signal area. Thus the presence of both through out the flower pigment range is a new  form of expression and I need good solid prof of this.  All this is speculation at this point, but so far it seems to tie in well with  anthocyanin , anthocyanin enhancement and interactions with pattern genes.

Mitic, B., T. Nikolic, et al. (1999). Morphological relationships within the Alpine-Dinaric populations of the genus Iris L., series Pallidae (A. Kern.) Trinajstic (Iridaceae). Periodicum Biologorum. Nov. 101(3): 245-251. {a} Department of Botany, Faculty of Science, University of Zagreb, Marulicev trg 20/II, 10000, Zagreb, Croatia

Mitic, B. and Z. Pavletic Morphologic and anatomical analysis of the leaves of Iris cengialti Ambrosi f. vochinensis Paulin. Bioloski Vestnik 40(3-4): 1-5. Faculty Science, Inst. Botany, Marulicev trg 20/II, CRO-1000 Zagreb, Croatia 

Chuck Chapman



"David Ferguson" <manzano57@msn.com> wrote:

>Chuck (& everyone)
>
>It would be interesting to know more details about the plants in the photos of "Iris pseudopallida" and about the one in the link you supplied to a photo of "I. cengialtii".  To me both look like normal I pallida, but I have no idea how large they are.  Admittedly the photos of "pseudopallida" show dark flowers and decidedly brownish spathes, but to me that is just evidence of normal variation within the populations, not necessarily indicative of something different; however, it isn’t very conclusive evidence without the details.  It would be nice to know where the plant in the "cengialtii" photo was from.  The pseudopallida certainly isn't from near the "traditional" locations for cengialtii, but not so far from the Mostar dot on your map.
>
>I have been looking more closely at photos of my three "cengialtii" clones, and the 'Munich Blue' and 'Loppio' actually look quite different from the 'Mostar'.  The flower shape and coloration (patterning) are different.  So, they may not really be that closely related, but they are similarly small in size.  'Mostar' should perhaps not be called "cengialtii" at all?  In flower form and some other details it looks like it could have genes from I. variegata (or "reginae").
>
>Perhaps I. pallida is just variable over it's entire range?  That really wouldn't be unusual.
>
>Here are a couple of citations that might prove interesting.  I have not looked them up yet.
>
>Mitic, B. (1991). Karyological analysis of some populations of the species Iris pallida, Iris illyrica, and Iris pseudopallida (Iridaceae). Acta Botanica Croatica 50: 91-98.
>
>Nikolic, T. and B. Mitic (1991). Phenetic relationships within populations of Iris illyrica, Iris pallida and Iris pseudopallida (Iridaceae) with regard to morphological characteristics of epidermis. Acta Botanica Croatica 50: 99-106.
>
>Are these ones that you've seen?
>
>Dave
>

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