ï
May the record be gently
corrected on triticale ?
Â
The manmade "origin
ofÂtriticale"Âbreeding model hasÂcertain
affinities with apparent iris speciesÂorigin,
asÂthe following will hopefully show.
Â
Triticale is a manmade
hybrid of triticum (wheat) and rye (secale),
thus amphidiploid. It does not involve barley.
The first such "primaryÂhybrids"Âused wheat as
the berry parent and rye asÂpollen parent. The
first generation progeny is a uniform F1
hybridÂthat isÂalmost always male sterile.
However, manmade inducedÂtetraploids from the
F1Âcan be converted fromÂamphidiploid ( 2x
genomes )Âto tetraploid ( 4x genomes ) by
doublingÂwith colchicine orÂotherÂcompounds.
ThisÂwill often restore partial fertility and
permit perpetuation of the breeding line. In
practice, especially in grain crops where
optimizing fertility is critical to grain
yield;Âit isÂnecessary toÂinter-breedÂthese new
partially fertile progenies for
additionalÂcycles to fully optimize grain
yieldÂthroughÂfavorable recombination and
reselection.ÂFurther, theseÂresulting fertile
families must be selfed to homozygosity if a
true breeding inbred line is desired. This is seldom
appreciated.ÂAs a result, mostÂcommercial
triticale varieties are many many generations
removed from the initial wheat / ryeÂcross.
Â
It is often assumed
thatÂ2X
diploid chromosome sets from the ancestral
sourcesÂareÂrepresented equally in the final
fertile 4X convertedÂline. We have strong
historical observations and some genomic data
thatÂthis is seldom if ever true in triticale
and maize wide crosses.ÂI believe the same is
true in iris. Since segregation isÂoften
impaired in wide crosses, it is probably
saferÂto assume unequal genome
representation.ÂMany have reasonably
speculated that this isÂwhyÂtwo or more wide
crosses made with the same pair of individual
plantsÂcan generate distinctly different sets
of progenies.ÂUneven segregationÂand
representation ofÂnative chromosomes and genes
duringÂrecombinationÂisÂlikelyÂcause.
Â
This is a general
description of process in triticale that
correlates well toÂsome proposed iris species
origins and directly toÂwide cross iris
breeding.
Â
CAVEAT: be careful
not toÂconfuse vegetative plant propagation of
iris plants with seed generations described
above.ÂVegetative propagation simply clones
orÂcarbon copiesÂa specifcÂplant regardless of
whether it is a hybrid or inbred.ÂSeed
generationsÂon the other hand reshuffle genes
each generation. A line must
beÂselfedÂsuccessively for several
generationsÂto becomeÂgeneticallyÂtrue breeding.
Â
Actually, IÂdoubt there
are manyÂtrue breeding iris.ÂWe make a cross, or
mother nature makes a cross, and weÂlike it.
Presto - since its an iris and easy to
vegetatively grow we clone it and circulate it
directly.
Â
Even inÂspecies iris seeds
circulatedÂit is very doubtful ifÂmanyÂ(any?)
areÂfixed true breeding lines. The phenotypes
may be similar, butÂgenotypes are likely still
unfixed and can beÂmined forÂsheltered
recessives and re-shuffled for additional gene
re-combinations within the source line.ÂÂ
Â
So, I'm gettin' round to
sayÂI believe Charles Jenkins observations noted
below.
Â
And also . . . try lactea
wiiide-crossÂwith typhifolia. Believe I got a
few seedlings with that wide cross a few years
ago. They laterÂcollapsed in the seedling stage.
I should have embryo cultured them in a sterile
environment but didn't do it.
Â
irisman646
Â
Â
Â
Â
----- Original Message
-----
From:
g*@molalla.net
To: i*@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday,
January 12, 2011 10:11 AM
Subject: Re:
[iris-species] Prairie Iris Article Crossing
Species
Â
ï
Added Note...Charlie Jenkins was
a geneticist that work on the triticale
wheat in Canada. A cross of wheat and
barley.
Â
So I would believe his results as
he was very meticulous.
Â
Will
Â
Â
-----
Original Message -----
From:
r*@embarqmail.com
To:
i*@yahoogroups.com
Sent:
Wednesday, January 12, 2011 6:36 AM
Subject:
Re: [iris-species] Prairie Iris Article
Crossing Species
Â
I have been distracted
lately trying to fix a problem with
the Iris Encyclopedia so I hope I am
not saying something that has
already been said. Iris lactea has
not been tried with many other
species in hybridizing. But Charles
Jenkins who was geneticist and
hybridizer of spuria irises tried it
with the spurias. He got very
strange results and if it would be
anyone but him, few would have
believed it, The first generation he
got plants that looked no different
than the lactea he used. But Charles
did an F2 and to his surprise
resulted in many of the seedlings
being twins out of the same seed.
Each twin produced one plant that
looked like the lactea and one that
looked like the spuria. Charles was
a very meticulous scientist andÂI
believe his results but they are
certainly remarkable.
If you want to know what
things a species has been crossed
with there is two sources you can go
to. The later SIGNA checklists
listed all croses with a species and
the Iris Encyclopedia has all of
this information also. Much is not
formatted well, because I have not
finished with all that work, but it
is all there I think.
----- Original Message -----
From: g*@sasktel.net
To: i*@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011
1:04:27 AM
Subject: Re: [iris-species] Prairie
Iris Article
Â
Hello
El,
Did
you come up with a list of
what will cross with it?Â
I have always wanted to
try crossing it with I.
missouriensis which it
kind of resembles. In
truth I think it is worth
trying to cross it with
anything really. I does
set seed quite easily and
if you wanted to make sure
of a wide cross you would
have to protect the
cross.Â
I
think BJâs poem has a lot
of truth in it for the
prairies â cold tonight.
Jim
Â
From:
e*@mymts.net
Sent:
Tuesday, January 11,
2011 9:25 AM
To:
i*@yahoogroups.com
Subject:
Re: [iris-species]
Prairie Iris Article
Â
Â
Morning
Jim and all.
Â
It took
me a few minutes
to recall which
magazine article
you're talking
about. I do now
remember reading
that about lactea
in your article.Â
You could always
get the editor to
post one of those
corrections.
Â
Interesting
that you mentioned
lactea though, as
just yesterday I
was trying to
figure out what
crosses with it.Â
I got an OP seed
pod off mine this
past fall, but I'm
pretty sure there
was only 1 bloom
stalk this year.Â
Perhaps it crossed
with itself.
Â
El, Ste
Anne, MB Z3
Â
From:
g*@sasktel.net
Sent:
Tuesday, January
11, 2011 1:27 AM
To:
i*@yahoogroups.com
Subject:
[iris-species]
Prairie Iris
Article
Â
Â
To
all of you who
may have read
my article I
hope you can
forgive me for
mistakenly
putting Iris
lactea in the
Spuria group.Â
I misread a
description of
this Iris
which lead to
such a
result. I was
hoping someone
would take
some editing
license with
the article.
Jim
in Saskatoon
