Re: I. pallida
- To: i*@yahoogroups.com
- Subject: Re: [iris-species] I. pallida
- From: "David Ferguson" m*@msn.com
- Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 03:48:43 -0700
- References: 53485705.705EF50B.4D7C6017@netscape.net
- Seal-send-time: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 03:48:43 -0700
|
Hi Chuck,
These are good examples of confusion that surrounds many of the older
cultivars.
First to 'True Charm'. It is quite possible that it is not pure I.
pallida, but it behaves as such, and is I. pallida by morphology. It does
not look like any plants with tetraploid parentage that I've seen. It is a
good point however, that I probably should not list it as if it is pure I.
pallida, when there is a question about this. The photo was just already
labeled this way, and I neglected to change or comment on it. Somewhere I
have found 'True Charm' listed as "diploid", but cannot find the source of
that information anywhere now (I didn't write down the citation). I need
to check my notes, but it seems that it set pods last year, so it is very
unlikely that it is a triploid (as the parentage would indicate is most
likely). Anyway, it needs to be worked with some more to learn just what
it really is. Assuming the "True Charm" I have is indeed the "true" one, I
don't believe the parentage published by 'Sturtevant' to be true. I
suspect that 'True Charm' (and 'Prince Charming') were really
from selfed or bee-pollinated pods from 'St. Clair', with no tetraploid
involvement at all. I also suspect that 'True Delight' and the other two
are siblings.
Just as a side note. 'Oriflamme' is clearly not true I. x germanica,
simply because it is a 48 chromosome hybrid or species (perhaps of pure Near
Eastern tetraploid TB ancestry?). 'Erebe' is a mystery to me (listed as
supposedly the same as 'Kochii', but I seriously doubt it based on 48 chromosome
offspring it apparently threw), and 'Macrantha' is(was) the same as or close to
'Amas', and was a wild-collected 48 chromosome plant from the Near East (not I.
x germanica). The "germanica" label goes back to published associations of
the Near Eastern tetraploids with I. x germanica in the literature (I think
Mathews had a lot to do with this association), but this associations merely
pointed out similarities, and weren't intended to formally synonymize the
names.
As for 'Fairy', there are more than one of those. The 'Fairy' of van
Tubergen is supposed to be I. aphylla (I don't know the plant). The
'Fairy' of Kennicott via Peterson (and of Farr) is listed as a TB, and is
morphologically referable to I. pallida. It is the one that is moderately
common in cultivation. There are some other old 'Fairy' cultivars
mentioned in the AIS checklist as well.
The cultivar 'Loppio' has been listed in several ways, but is clearly I.
pallida cengialtii. It was collected by Foster in the early 1912, and
recorded apparently in 1912. I. don't know where the "I. aphylla X I.
pallida" reference comes from, but it is perhaps in reference to the I. aphylla
that is a synonym of I. pallida and not the one that is recognized as a distinct
species now. I. [pallida] cengialtii has been confused with I. aphylla in
the literature too.
Here is what Dykes had to say about it: "The Loppio variety of
I. Cengialtii was collected by Foster on Monte Baldo near the Lago di
Loppio and differs from the type in its foliage which in the early stages tends
to be of a bluish green by contrast with the somewhat yellow-green of I.
Cengialtii. It also flowers later and has darker, and less blue-,
purple flowers and the purple line at the base of the spathes is also more
marked."
Other writers since have considered it nothing more than a color variant of
var. cengialtii, and given it no formal recognition as being distinct.
'Loppio' was a parent of 'Loptec'. Don't know if there is a published
chromosome count for 'Loppio'. I might have just noted it as another
count for 'cengialtii' if I found it sometime in the past.
I only have the three clones of I. pallida cengialtii, and they are all
darker than I. pallida, but 'Loppio' is the darkest and least blue. It
also blooms last, but just by a few days, with considerable
overlap. 'Mostar' is usually the first of the three to come into
flower. Not unusual for such variation within any taxon. They are
all distinctly smaller than even the smallest of the plants that fit the
description of I. pallida var. pallida, and the foliage is less upright and
lower than in other I. pallida, and makes a less "organized" mass. Even in
'Loppio', where leaves are described as bluish-green (it is) it is decided
"greener" than in most I. pallida (at least it is in my yard).
Yahoo! Groups Links
|
- Follow-Ups:
- Re: I. pallida
- From: R* R* P*
- From: R* R* P*
- Re: I. pallida
- References:
- Re: I. pallida
- From: i*
- Re: I. pallida
- Prev by Date: Re: I. pallida
- Next by Date: Re: OT Extension of comment period/plant white list
- Previous by thread: Re: I. pallida
- Next by thread: Re: I. pallida