This is all so fascinating.
You know, a lot of folks love setosa. For many it is the first species they succeed with from seed, after the water irises and tectorum.
Why doesn't someone take on the task of writing up a really good article for SIGNA on all this? A noce long juicy essay with a review of the literature, cultural history, and the whole shebang? SIGNA badly needs articles; people need good things to read and learn from, and this is so fascinating! We could take one species at a time, just as we became aware of interest and of someone's special knowledge, and do an in depth run down. Rodney's finished a new chunk of the Index, so seeing what has been published there is easy. I personally relish opening up a Section publication and finding something with some length and intricacy to it, especially if there is some narrative and some adventure, too, and even interesting bits about other genera.
By the way, I've got a file open here with an eye to pulling something together for print on that documetnary history of I. pallida and 'Dalmatica' issue, so if anyone runs into something on point in your reading, shoot me a little citation or quote, SVP.
Cordially,
AMW
-----Original Message-----
From: dhinchey <dhinchey@alaska.com>
To: Chuck Chapman <irischapman@aim.com>; iris-species <iris-species@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Oct 7, 2011 3:04 am
Subject: Re: [iris-species] I. versicolor 'Murrayana'
Yes, Chuck is right about the Iris setosa ssp setosa (on the Alaska coastal areas ie south of the Alaska Range) have a different foliage look than Iris setosa ssp interior (which are north of the Alaska Range. Mt. McKinley is in the the Alaska Range.)
The interior plants are taller and the foliage is not as wide as the coastal ones. The flowers seem to look alike.
The Alaska Range is a formidable barrier for plants. It is also what divides the climate zones here. North ward has a continental climate and south of the AK Range has a more coastal influence.
I am fairly sure that I saw setosa in the Soviet (now called Russian) Far East in 1989 while traveling with botanists there for almost three weeks. I will have to dig out my slides.
As would be expected for such a widely distributed species, there is a lot of variation. There are many plants that we share with the other side of the Being Ocean (even though you CANNOT see Russia from here. Ha ha)
Dr. Murray worked with many Russian Far East plants. I do not remember the source, but I am fairly sure that he told me that Cornus canadensis in Alaska was more closely related to those in Russian than those in eastern Canada. (I was doing research on C. canadensis at the time in early 1980's.) It seems that other plants that are in common to all three areas followed this pattern. That was early in genetic testing, so maybe things have changed. If all that still holds up I think it means that it has been a longer time since the Alaskan plant populations have been separated from the eastern Canadian than the Russian ones.
There are two people that have collected some fantastic color variations of I. setosa ssp. interior in the Fairbanks area.
Debbie
Anchorage, Alaska
Sent from my HTC cell phone.
Versicolor is setosa X virginica. according to information current. Not an assumption, a scientific fact. Check this link.
http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/content/100/2/219.short
Where plant populations are found now is not were plants were found at time that original speciation of versicolor occurred.
The articles and exploration of origins of versicolor came from were made previous to separation of I hookeri into its separate species from I. setosa canadesis. I haven't looked into what was used for comparison of genomes, so it may possibly have been hookeri.
In any case, hookeri, I setosa Alasaka coast and I. setosa Alaska interior are all distinct populations of setosa population, which is also present in Japan. All developed from original setosa, which had to relatively close by before differentiation into these subspecies.
So if setosa was able to cross with virginica, then hookeri could very well cross as well.
There are lots of isolated populations of "robusta" iris found throughout Ontario and Quebec in areas quite remote from cultivated plants. (Tony Huber did study of these as a paid botanist by Canadian government). Robustas are rarely if ever sold in nurseries. I have never seen one advertized in any of the general Garden catalogues and never seen one in a nursary, (Always visit large nursaries where ever I go).
Most of the locations that Tony found robustas in are very remote from the Canadian location of virginica (Point Pele and in a few isolated areas close to Point Pele)
Never ever heard of a Robuit being planted in wetlands restorations. Be very surprised if anyone did this. They are superviswd by botanists who are very careful that nativel species are being used. If you have any information on Robustas being ussed this waay this would you forward the information?
In any case this would not apply to "Murrayana" which was found in 1930's.
Chuck Chapman
-----Original Message-----
From: Sean A. Zera <z*@umich.edu>
To: iris-species <i*@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Oct 6, 2011 9:51 am
Subject: Re: [iris-species] I. versicolor 'Murrayana'
I believe the current assumption is that versicolor is a hybrid
between virginica and hookeri (a.k.a. setosa v. canadensis). Not
counting hookeri, the nearest setosa is in southern Alaska, thousands
of miles away from versicolor or virginica.
Since virginica and versicolor (and probably Ãrobusta) are mixed up or
simply not distinguished in the nursery trade, and are planted in
large numbers in wetland mitigations and restorations, I'd be
surprised if there aren't lots of populations established outside
their original ranges.
Sean Z
Quoting Chuck Chapman <i*@aim.com>:
> I just looked at article on Murrayana.
>
> Very interesting.
>
> A couple of observations. The offspring of Murrayana X vesicolor
> sound very much like offspring of crosses of virginica x versicolor
> Except that the "Robusta" plants are usually fertile.
>
> Also versicolor were produced from a natural cross of setosa x
> virginica. And hokerii is very closely related to setosa. Hookeri
> and versicolor are both native to Newfoundland.
>
> I found Cast Ashore (a robusta) in an area that has versicolor but
> no virginica. so you can have plant relics or hybrid relics in
> strange locations.
>
> Chuck Chapman
>
> Sometimes
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eleanor Hutchison <e*@mymts.net>
> To: iris-species <i*@yahoogroups..com>
> Sent: Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:31 pm
> Subject: [iris-species] I. versicolor 'Murrayana'
>
>
> Todd, I rec'd this iris today, so looked up a bit more information
> about it and came across your interesting article at Dave's Garden,
> "The Story of Iris versicolor 'Murrayana'".
>
> I hope I planted it at the correct depth, as it had roots heading
> up one of the stems.
>
> El, Ste Anne, Manitoba, Canada
>
>
>
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>
