Re: I. versicolor 'Murrayana'

 

The taxonomy of Setosa is still quite confusing since it would appear that most authors have not had the benefit of material from all parts of the world. No one author has addressed all the boatnical names since Dykes and much has been published since. I attempt a consolidation in the Iris Encyclopedia. see http://wiki.irises.org/bin/view/Spec/SpecSetosa But I have really not had the time to work on this. It is unclear whether the eastern botanists and the western botanist have really consulted each others work. Chuck you are correct, I meant to say versicolor not virginica. 

Debbie I would love to include your photos in the Iris Encyclopedia. If you provide the region where they where photographed I believe we can pin them down under a particular variety or form.

Anner; Edgar Anderson was a much beloved figure who was always willing to talk to the public. I met him but once at the annual Taxonomy symposium at MoBot back when I was a graduate student.

From: dhinchey@alaska.com
To: "Chuck Chapman" <irischapman@aim.com>, iris-species@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 7, 2011 3:04:54 AM
Subject: Re: [iris-species]  I. versicolor 'Murrayana'

 

Yes, Chuck is right about the Iris setosa ssp setosa (on the Alaska coastal areas ie south of the Alaska Range) have a  different foliage look than Iris setosa ssp interior (which are north of the Alaska Range.  Mt. McKinley is in the the Alaska Range.)

The interior plants are taller and the foliage is not as wide as the coastal ones.  The flowers seem to look alike.

The Alaska Range is a formidable barrier for plants.  It is also what divides the climate zones here.  North ward has a continental climate and south of the AK Range has a more coastal influence.

I am fairly sure that I saw setosa in the Soviet (now called Russian) Far East in 1989 while traveling with botanists there for almost three weeks.  I will have to dig out my slides.

As would be expected for such a widely distributed species, there is a lot of variation.  There are many plants that we share with the other side of the Being Ocean (even though you CANNOT see Russia from here.  Ha ha)

Dr. Murray worked with many Russian Far East plants.  I do not remember the source, but I am fairly sure that he told me that Cornus canadensis in Alaska was more closely related to those in Russian than those in eastern Canada.  (I was doing research on C. canadensis at the time in early 1980's.)  It seems that other plants that are in common to all three areas followed this pattern.  That was early in genetic testing, so maybe things have changed.  If all that still holds up I think it means that it has been a longer time since the Alaskan plant populations have been separated from the eastern Canadian than the Russian ones.

There are two people that have collected some fantastic color variations of I. setosa ssp. interior in the Fairbanks area.

Debbie
Anchorage, Alaska

Sent from my HTC cell phone.

----- Reply message -----
From: "Chuck Chapman" <irischapman@aim.com>
Date: Thu, Oct 6, 2011 7:30 am
Subject: [iris-species] I. versicolor 'Murrayana'
To: <iris-species@yahoogroups.com>

 

Versicolor is  setosa X virginica.  according to information current. Not an assumption, a scientific fact. Check this link.

http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/content/100/2/219.short

Where plant populations are found now is not were plants were found at time  that original  speciation of versicolor occurred.

The articles and exploration of  origins of versicolor came from were made previous to separation of  I hookeri into its separate species from I. setosa canadesis. I haven't looked into what was used for comparison of genomes, so it may possibly have been hookeri.

In any case, hookeri, I setosa Alasaka coast and I. setosa Alaska interior are all distinct populations of  setosa population, which is also present in Japan. All developed from original setosa, which had to  relatively close by before differentiation into these subspecies.

So if setosa  was able to cross with virginica, then hookeri  could very well cross as well.

There are lots of  isolated populations of "robusta"  iris found throughout Ontario and Quebec in areas quite remote from cultivated plants. (Tony Huber  did study of these as a paid botanist by Canadian government).  Robustas are rarely if ever sold in nurseries. I have never seen one advertized in any of the general Garden catalogues and never seen one in a nursary, (Always visit large nursaries where ever I go).

Most of the locations that Tony found robustas in are very remote from the Canadian location of virginica (Point Pele and in  a few isolated areas close to Point Pele)

Never ever heard of a Robuit being planted in wetlands restorations. Be very surprised if anyone did this. They are superviswd by botanists who are very careful that nativel species are being used.  If you have any information on Robustas being ussed this waay this would you forward the information?

In any case this would not apply to "Murrayana"  which was found in 1930's.

Chuck Chapman



-----Original Message-----
From: Sean A. Zera <zera@umich.edu>
To: iris-species <iris-species@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Oct 6, 2011 9:51 am
Subject: Re: [iris-species] I. versicolor 'Murrayana'

 
I believe the current assumption is that versicolor is a hybrid
between virginica and hookeri (a.k.a. setosa v. canadensis). Not
counting hookeri, the nearest setosa is in southern Alaska, thousands
of miles away from versicolor or virginica.

Since virginica and versicolor (and probably Ãrobusta) are mixed up or
simply not distinguished in the nursery trade, and are planted in
large numbers in wetland mitigations and restorations, I'd be
surprised if there aren't lots of populations established outside
their original ranges.

Sean Z

Quoting Chuck Chapman <i*@aim.com>:

> I just looked at article on Murrayana.
>
> Very interesting.
>
> A couple of observations. The offspring of Murrayana X vesicolor 
> sound very much like offspring of crosses of virginica x versicolor 
> Except that the "Robusta" plants are usually fertile.
>
> Also versicolor were produced from a natural cross of setosa x
> virginica. And  hokerii is very closely related to setosa. Hookeri
> and  versicolor are both native to Newfoundland.
>
> I found Cast Ashore (a robusta) in an area that has versicolor but
> no virginica. so you can have  plant relics or  hybrid relics in
> strange locations.
>
> Chuck Chapman
>
> Sometimes
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eleanor Hutchison &lt;e*@mymts.net&gt;
> To: iris-species &lt;i*@yahoogroups..com&gt;
> Sent: Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:31 pm
> Subject: [iris-species] I. versicolor 'Murrayana'
>
>  
> Todd, I rec'd this iris today, so looked up a bit more information
> about it and came across your interesting article at Dave's Garden,
> "The Story of Iris versicolor 'Murrayana'".
>  
> I hope I planted it at the correct depth, as it had roots heading
> up one of the stems.
>  
> El, Ste Anne, Manitoba, Canada
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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