Re: Re: REB: cycle vs 'summer' genes
iris@hort.net
  • Subject: Re: Re: REB: cycle vs 'summer' genes
  • From: C* C* <i*@aim.com>
  • Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 11:36:18 -0500 (EST)
Plants have to be mature before they can respond to bud set temperatures. So a big clump at various stages of maturity has no relevance. Only relevant factor is number of fans at maturity at time of bud set temperatures. Only mature fans are affected by bud set temperatures. Can be only fan in clump. Other fans can reach maturity and have bud set later in growing season.
After bud set, then bloom is under control of type of flowering trigger it needs. 1) Direct rebloomers (ie: summer bloomers) like Immortality send up flower stalk immediately after bud set 2) Fall cyclic send up flower stalks somewhat later (perhaps a few months later, actual trigger is not clear) 3) Long season (preferential vernalization plants) send up flower stalks after about 5 months of growth conditions after bud set 
4) Oncers only after vernalization
5) Whenever rebloomers  bloom whenever  fans reach maturity.
To know when plants are mature need to know what mature leaf count is. Otherwise make careful observations and make note of when main fan stops growing and new increases start to grow.
To know when bud set temperatures occur you need to keep records of min/max temperatures in your own garden. Or make notes of when the new increases for that cultivar stat to grow. Then write this date down and make another note when plant blooms. Three weeks (approximately, and for TB) before bloom is when plant initiated growth of flower stalk, and when it received bloom (not bud set) growth trigger. This data will tell you what type of rebloomer that plant is. 


Chuck Chapman

-----Original Message-----
From: Linda Mann <lmann@lock-net.com>
To: iris <iris@hort.net>
Sent: Mon, Dec 5, 2011 9:15 am
Subject: Re: [iris] Re: REB: cycle vs 'summer' genes

And because it isn't clear, I tend to be skeptical about all
explanations.  mea culpa.
The latter explanation could apply - even tho one of the cycle seedlings doesn't make a rampant patch of fans trying to take over the garden like 
some of the sibs do, it may be increasing/growing fast, but not as
disease resistant as some of the sibs.  2 steps forward, 1 1/2 back.

And is appealing as a 'simpler' explanation. But (presumably) with fans
in all stages of maturity, wouldn't spring bloom tend to be spread out
or vary from year to year?  Doesn't seem to happen, tho fall bloom
doesn't always occur in these two.  Heavy in the good grower when it
does, but sometimes (i.e., this year) none.  And it did not fall bloom
for the Spoons.

On the other hand, IMM seems to be odd here compared to the other
rebloomers I've tried to use for breeding, I keep wondering if it's
operating with a fully 'balanced' set of chromosomes.  It may just be
the chronic poor growing conditions here (weather), but seed set and
(esp) germination seems low in the majority of IMM crosses, & it's
anthers are definitely more sensitive to weather than, for example, HoM, 
MATRIX, RENOWN, VIOLET MIRACLE, TEA LEAVES.

CSONG seeds were an exception.  So was CHINA MOON (2010 cross, so too
soon to say if any of those will rebloom - one maiden fall bloom this
year) cross.  Guess I should look up the numbers before saying
germination is lower for sure, but that's my impression.  Simplest
explanation may be it's just not happy enough here to produce a lot of
viable seeds.

Abundant seed 2011 in backcrosses with CSONG children (just to see if
that works well to recapture rebloom - not expecting much in the way of
looks).

On 12/4/2011 3:38 PM, Chuck Chapman wrote:
What you have with Immortality X Celebration song is not clear. Could 
be

a gene recombination of the two genes needed for FC rebloom. That is
absence of vernalization genes plus absence of daylight dormancy gene.
Combined, one from one parent , other from other parent. FB X
Celebration Song = all oncers, but strong growth. Or could be 
extended
season rebloom. That is plant reaches maturity early and then has 
five

months of growth, triggering "false Spring" trigger.


Always appreciate your thoughts on these (apparent) mysteries, Chuck.

Linda Mann east TN USA zone 7

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