Re: HYB:Germination:oxygen

On Feb 18, 2007, at 11:34 PM, loic tasquier wrote:
The more inhibitors, the better prepared for survival, so maybe the seeds that germinate the second years ARE better !
Well yes perhaps better, but what does better mean to the plant. It may or may not agree with what we think is better. An old doggy eared floppy flower on a plant that resists flooding better is certainly better for the plant but not of much value for us. 

Still interesting to investigate.



Worth keeping track to check this hypothesis.
Thanks John for reminding me Nature's law, always cleverer to go with it than against ! 

Looc
----- Original Message ----- From: "John I Jones" <jijones@usjoneses.com> 
To: <iris@hort.net>
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 1:15 AM
Subject: Re: [iris]HYB:Germination:oxygen
I have not read all of this thread, and maybe someone mentioned this already, but if not here goes:
In thinking about germination inhibitors, one should remember what the evolutionary reason (or benefit) for the inhibitors is: that being to protect the species from extermination from some event that happens after germination takes place (like a hard freeze after a prolonged early warming period) The species does not want all the seeds to germinate at the same time so that if some catastrophe happens the whole species is not wiped out.
Different iris species have re-markedly different inhibitor characteristics. Arils for instance are thought to be viable for years (over 10 as I recall). Some are so difficult to sprout, the embryo culture is often a preferred method despite its difficulties. 

John

On Feb 18, 2007, at 6:46 AM, loic tasquier wrote:


Hello Betty
I've been wanting to ask you this for some time now, and never took the time... but since germination is in the air ( 15 pots have started already here, 2 months before normal time...), let's ask :
When you have germination the second year, in the pots you put on the side after the first germination, have you noticed a difference between the seedlings of the first year and the ones from the second ? Like the second year ones beeing the stronger ones, or the less old fashion looking ones, or the prettier ones, or the earlier ones in bloom, or more reblooming ones, or whatever other difference one might think of, or has it got nothing to do with anything, the late ones being as heterogenous as the first?
I would like to know if it's worth waiting for another year germination, in that case i would have to change my technique of unpotting my seedlings. For the moment,I don't really have the option of a second chance of germination, because i don't keep anything from the pots that i empy in water to wash them so i can manage to get each seedling out without breaking their roots. I would like to know if it's worth siving the left over, put it back into a pot with new earth, or if there is another method for unpotting the seedlings and save at the same time the rest of the pot. I also don't fancy having to take care of all these pots for another 12 months (watering and weeding), i guess it might be more efficient to make another cross and seed them in November as usual!
Unless, and this is what i'd really want to know, the second year seedlings are of a better quality than the first year ones, therefore worth the extra work and wait ! 

Looc


----- Original Message ----- From: <Autmirislvr@aol.com>
To: <iris@hort.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 2:19 PM
Subject: [iris]HYB:Germination:oxygen



In a message dated 2/17/2007 10:15:55 P.M. Central Standard Time,
pharcher@mindspring.com writes:
<<So one must be careful how long they are soaked. Fresh air or water 
(oxygen) needs to be refreshed to some  extent.>>
Anything can sour if left under the wrong conditions. Although there are things that can be considered better when soured, I don't think iris seed are among them. (Neither are forgotten beach towels in plastic containers! But 
that's another forum!)
We've talked before about iris seed that pop. When I stated that I don't dig around in pots much, I was really saying that I don't dump each pot and check for seed or count the seed. I stick the pots over to one side and wait to see if they sprout another year. (In my experience the 2nd years germination is greatly improved if these pots are also watered in the spring during 
the window of germination opportunity.)
When I do check during the germination period, I may find poppers. If you pinch a viable seed between your fingers, the seed is hard. Poppers pop! 1) Did they start to sprout and then freeze before the seed coat cracked? Or 2) did they sour because they stayed too wet during our cloudy springs?
When a favored cross doesn't put up even one sprout I do check! Especially, if it doesn't sprout the second year. Usually, I find NO seed in the pot! Outside a forensic lab, an empty pot offers no evidence to support one theory 
over the other.
If I've interpreted my readings correctly, the reason for hanging the iris seed in a toilet tank is two fold. One of those reasons being to supply oxygen in the fresh water supply. This is accomplished in outdoor plantings through rain. Or, during dry years, through watering daily with a hose. 

________________________________________________________
Betty W. in South-central KY Zone 6 ---If you don't cross them, you can't 
plant them!
Bridge In Time Iris Garden@website:
Where the seeds are in the pots once  again!
_www.thegardensite.com/irises/bridgeintime/_
(http://www.thegardensite.com/irises/bridgeintime/)
_Reblooming Iris - Home Page_ (http://www.rebloomingiris.com/)
_iris-photos archives_ (http://www.hort.net/lists/iris-photos/)
_iris-talk archives_ (http://www.hort.net/lists/iris-talk/)
_AIS: American Iris Society website_ (http://www.irises.org/)
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