From: iris-owner@hort.net (iris DIGEST)
Reply-To: iris@hort.net
To: iris-digest@hort.net
Subject: [iris] iris DIGEST V1 #154
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 20:36:43 -0600
iris DIGEST Monday, January 15 2007 Volume 01 : Number
154
In this issue:
Re: [iris] REF: Translingual registrations
Re: [iris] REF: Translingual registrations
Re: [iris] REF: Translingual registrations
Re: [iris] REF: Translingual registrations
Re: [iris] REF: Translingual registrations
Re: [iris] REF: Translingual registrations
[iris] Re: CULT: Planting siberians
Re: [iris] REF: Translingual registrations
Re: [iris] REF: Translingual registrations
Re: [iris] REF: Translingual registrations
Re: [iris] Fw: Translingual registrations
[iris] Fw: Translingual registrations
Re: [iris] REF: Translingual registrations
Re: [iris] REF: Translingual registrations
Re: [iris] REF: Translingual registrations
[iris] HYB: Frozen seeds
Re: [iris] REF: Translingual registrations
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 20:31:25 EST
From: ChatOWhitehall@aol.com
Subject: Re: [iris] REF: Translingual registrations
In a message dated 1/15/2007 4:42:02 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Cseggen1@aol.com writes:
<<I am often befuddled by your writing but on this subject I agree!
I befuddle myself sometimes, Connie. You are not missing much, truth to
tell. As to definitions, note that deceit as such is not always a
component of
the word. It can also just mean a discussion that appears valid, but is
not
very sound.
<<Is it really all that important?
Yes, I think questions involving registration are always important. I am
not, however, convinced that there is a crisis here. Griff, on the other
hand,
is not so sure. Mike Lowe would be the one to ask, as he knows with what
frequency, if any, the code of rules with which he works fails to apply to
the
real cases at hand.
<<One would think that if a hybridizer spent as much time as it takes to
introduce a new iris, that person would do all they could to be certain
the
name was not confused with another hybridizers product. And that's all I
have
to say about that!
Yes, you would think so.
I hear the weather is terrible in Missouri. Take care.
Cordially,
Anner Whitehead
Richmond VA USA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 13:39:35 -0500
From: "J. Griffin Crump" <jgcrump@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [iris] REF: Translingual registrations
All kidding aside (well, almost all), I agree with Loic that registering
irises named for the same person in different languages can lead to
confusion. I see no real problem with generic names, such as Little Gem or
Dark Eyes, since the translations are usually quite different in appearance
and such things as little gems and dark eyes are innumerable. But when we
are referring to the proper names of specific individual persons, we have a
different situation. Loic mentioned "Joan of Arc" as an example of such a
problem that could occur in the future. Oddly, it was only 3 months ago
that I decided I wanted to register a seedling as "Joan of Arc". On
scouring the Checklist, I found JEANNE D'ARC already recorded. As far as I
was concerned, another iris had already been named "Joan of Arc", the name
simply rendered in its original French. Happily, I was still able to honor
my saint with her title, MAID OF ORLEANS.
People like to change foreign proper names into their familiar domestic,
more easily pronounced versions, and educated people know that. Thus, the
possibility exists that someone hearing ELEANOR OF AQUITAINE in
conversation, or seeing it referred to without accompanying date or
hybridizer would think that ALIENOR D'AQUITAINE was meant. -- Griff
zone 7 in Virginia
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <ChatOWhitehall@aol.com>
To: <iris@hort.net>
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: [iris] REF: Translingual registrations
> In a message dated 1/15/2007 2:46:35 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> tasquierloic@cs.com writes:
>
> <<These two names refer to the same person, Alienor d'Aquitaine for the
> French, or Eleanor of Aquitaine for the English.
>
> Yes, that fact had not escaped me. She was a queen of both France and
> England, which does add piquancy. Of course, England and France were
not
> then what
> England and France are now, nor the languages, but, nevertheless, there
> it
> is. The really interesting one was Henrietta Maria of France, wife of
> Charles I
> of England. When it became necessary to take up arms, she shouldered
> hers,
> and led an army. She called herself, "Her She-Majesty, Generalissima,"
> speaking of wonderful names. Cracks me up.
>
>
> <<The only problem is that it's totally mechanical and, and in the case
> of
> Historical figures, i really wonder where is the limit in
disambiguation
> .
>
>
> The process is not totally mechanical.
>
> As the last step, a human being of benign temperament, adequate
> intelligence, and no personal agendas, decides whether the name under
> consideration is
> likely to cause significant confusion in any one of several ways, or
> whether it
> is not. In some small number of cases this decision is one with which
> other
> persons of good will, adequate intelligence, and no personal agendas,
may
> disagree. So be it.
>
> Of course, with each registration which enters the arena the terrain
> changes, and the question of what disambiguation requires, becomes more
> complex.
>
> The only way to eliminate the registrar's sole subjective call, other
> than
> to form a committee to come up with some joint subjective call, which
> idea I
> dismiss as no improvement on the current system, is to promulgate ever
> more
> rules, to the point where the process becomes as truly mechanical as
> possible,
> at which point another set of problems will no doubt be seen peeking
> eagerly
> over the horizon.
>
> Do you want more rules?
>
> Cordially,
>
> Anner Whitehead
> Richmond VA USA
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 13:20:56 EST
From: ChatOWhitehall@aol.com
Subject: Re: [iris] REF: Translingual registrations
In a message dated 1/15/2007 9:45:24 AM Eastern Standard Time,
tasquierloic@cs.com writes:
<<I think it would make perfect sense to give the meaning in Engligh of
any
foreign name, on the registration file.
This depends on what you intend by 'meaning'. Do you intend a crude
uninflected translation, in which case I believe one of the online
translators will
do the trick, albeit oftimes with hilarious results, or do you intend
'significance', with nuances?
For example, the Sass brothers, miraculous to tell, named an iris 'Beau
Ideal.'
Unless there is a date typo in the 39CL, which is possible, and I don't
have
time to root around in the files right now because I am waiting for a bunch
of hearties to deliver a new washing machine to the house, this Iris
predates
Wren's novel of the same name.
In any case, how would one give the 'meaning' in English of that
venerable
philosophical and aesthetic construct, without two pages of text, and a
bibliography.
Cordially,
Anner Whitehead
Richmond VA USA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 19:55:24 EST
From: ChatOWhitehall@aol.com
Subject: Re: [iris] REF: Translingual registrations
In a message dated 1/15/2007 7:22:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,
tasquierloic@cs.com writes:
Do you always HAVE to be so unpleasant, or IS your contempt for people so
deeply ingrained that you don't even realise it?
Nonsense, I am a darling girl, and I have contempt for no one on earth or
beyond. But I am certainly not going to talk with you again! Whew!
Anner Whitehead, &c
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 01:34:10 +0100
From: "loic tasquier" <tasquierloic@cs.com>
Subject: Re: [iris] REF: Translingual registrations
Hello Connie Eggen,
Pleased to meet you!
Here is the copy of the mail Griffin Crump sent 3 hours ago.
HE doesn't think my efforts are deceptive !
"All kidding aside (well, almost all), I agree with Loic that registering
irises named for the same person in different languages can lead to
confusion. I see no real problem with generic names, such as Little Gem or
Dark Eyes, since the translations are usually quite different in appearance
and such things as little gems and dark eyes are innumerable. But when we
are referring to the proper names of specific individual persons, we have a
different situation. Loic mentioned "Joan of Arc" as an example of such a
problem that could occur in the future. Oddly, it was only 3 months ago
that I decided I wanted to register a seedling as "Joan of Arc". On
scouring the Checklist, I found JEANNE D'ARC already recorded. As far as I
was concerned, another iris had already been named "Joan of Arc", the name
simply rendered in its original French. Happily, I was still able to honor
my saint with her title, MAID OF ORLEANS.
People like to change foreign proper names into their familiar domestic,
more easily pronounced versions, and educated people know that. Thus, the
possibility exists that someone hearing ELEANOR OF AQUITAINE in
conversation, or seeing it referred to without accompanying date or
hybridizer would think that ALIENOR D'AQUITAINE was meant. -- Griff"
That idea of Sophistry was introduced by Anner Whitehead and in only
invoves
herself.
This forum is not the place to call each others names!
Cordially,
Loic
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <Cseggen1@aol.com>
To: <iris@hort.net>; <iris-photos@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: [iris] REF: Translingual registrations
>I had to look this one up Anner
>
> Main Entry: soph7ist7ry
> (javascript:popWin('/cgi-bin/audio.pl?sophis11.wav=sophistry'))
> Pronunciation: 'sd-f&-strE
> Function: noun
> 1 : subtly deceptive reasoning or argumentation
>
> Main Entry: soph7ism
> (javascript:popWin('/cgi-bin/audio.pl?sophis01.wav=sophism'))
> Pronunciation: 'sd-"fi-z&m
> Function: noun
> 1 : an argument apparently correct in form but actually invalid;
> especially
> : such an argument used to deceive
>
> I am often befuddled by your writing but on this subject I agree!
>
> Is it really all that important? One would think that if a hybridizer
> spent
> as much time as it takes to introduce a new iris, that person would do
all
> they could to be certain the name was not confused with another
> hybridizers
> product. And that's all I have to say about that!
>
> Connie Eggen
> Zone 5
> Warsaw, Mo
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 21:18:32 +0100
From: "loic tasquier" <tasquierloic@cs.com>
Subject: Re: [iris] REF: Translingual registrations
Wouldn't you appreciate to understand the signification (since the the word
"meaning" seams to hurt your ears ) of these phonetic transcriptions of
Russian names such as : NE TRON MEDIA, PRIGLASITELNY BILET or RADOST
BYTIYA
that were registered in 2005?
I personnaly would, and i also imagine it would make the work of the
registrar slightly easier!
Of course, there would always be names with such delicacy, subtillity and
sophistication, that a translation or even a transcription would be "un
crime de lese majeste"...
Nevertheless, in most cases, it would be an improvement from the present
situation, where the percentage of ununderstandable new names is increasing
every year.
Loic
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <ChatOWhitehall@aol.com>
To: <iris@hort.net>
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: [iris] REF: Translingual registrations
> In a message dated 1/15/2007 9:45:24 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> tasquierloic@cs.com writes:
>
> <<I think it would make perfect sense to give the meaning in Engligh of
> any
> foreign name, on the registration file.
>
>
> This depends on what you intend by 'meaning'. Do you intend a crude
> uninflected translation, in which case I believe one of the online
> translators will
> do the trick, albeit oftimes with hilarious results, or do you intend
> 'significance', with nuances?
>
> For example, the Sass brothers, miraculous to tell, named an iris 'Beau
> Ideal.'
>
> Unless there is a date typo in the 39CL, which is possible, and I don't
> have
> time to root around in the files right now because I am waiting for a
> bunch
> of hearties to deliver a new washing machine to the house, this Iris
> predates
> Wren's novel of the same name.
>
> In any case, how would one give the 'meaning' in English of that
> venerable
> philosophical and aesthetic construct, without two pages of text, and a
> bibliography.
>
>
> Cordially,
>
> Anner Whitehead
> Richmond VA USA
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 20:20:50 EST
From: ChatOWhitehall@aol.com
Subject: [iris] Re: CULT: Planting siberians
In a message dated 1/11/2007 6:51:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, jgcrump
@cox.net writes:
A friend has given me some siberian iris seeds which she has had for a
couple
of years. I've never raised siberians from seed. I'd appreciate any
advice
that any of you with experience wants to give me.
Soak three four or five days, changing the water daily. Surface sow on
your
chosen medium. Do not cover the seed. Cover the pot with clear kitchen
wrap
held on with a rubberband. Keep warm and in bright light but not direct
sun.
Remove any seeds which mold. When germination starts, remove plastic wrap.
If
you don't see some action within six weeks, move the pots outside, protect
against rodents, and expect to see them about the third week of April.
Anner Whitehead
Richmond VA USA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:28:29 EST
From: ChatOWhitehall@aol.com
Subject: Re: [iris] REF: Translingual registrations
In a message dated 1/15/2007 3:21:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,
tasquierloic@cs.com writes:
Of course, there would always be names with such delicacy, subtillity and
sophistication, that a translation or even a transcription would be "un
crime de lese majeste"...
Codswallop.
My point is that you are going to run into some problems trying to provide
a
short simple clear 'meaning' of a complex abstraction. This has nothing to
do with sophistication, it has to do with the nature of language. "Beau
Ideal"
is a perfectly good Iris name, in fact it is an excellent one.
As for the idea that people may screw up Iris names when they say them out
loud and thereby cause confusion, I suggest that there is no name, proper
or
othewise, that cannot be made confusing or ridiculous by mispronunciation,
and
it is impossible to eliminate the risk of this happening.
This conversation is rapidly approaching sophistry, so I'll leave you
fellows to it.
Cordially,
Anner Whitehead
Richmond VA USA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 01:21:16 +0100
From: "loic tasquier" <tasquierloic@cs.com>
Subject: Re: [iris] REF: Translingual registrations
Anner,
Do you always HAVE to be so unpleasant, or IS your contempt for people
so
deeply ingrained that you don't even realise it?
From now we'd better avoid each other, for the sake of peace on this forum.
Sincerely,
Loic
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <ChatOWhitehall@aol.com>
To: <iris@hort.net>
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: [iris] REF: Translingual registrations
> In a message dated 1/15/2007 3:21:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> tasquierloic@cs.com writes:
>
> Of course, there would always be names with such delicacy, subtillity
and
> sophistication, that a translation or even a transcription would be "un
> crime de lese majeste"...
>
>
> Codswallop.
>
> My point is that you are going to run into some problems trying to
> provide a
> short simple clear 'meaning' of a complex abstraction. This has nothing
> to
> do with sophistication, it has to do with the nature of language. "Beau
> Ideal"
> is a perfectly good Iris name, in fact it is an excellent one.
>
> As for the idea that people may screw up Iris names when they say them
> out
> loud and thereby cause confusion, I suggest that there is no name,
proper
> or
> othewise, that cannot be made confusing or ridiculous by
> mispronunciation, and
> it is impossible to eliminate the risk of this happening.
>
> This conversation is rapidly approaching sophistry, so I'll leave you
> fellows to it.
>
> Cordially,
>
> Anner Whitehead
> Richmond VA USA
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 21:45:54 EST
From: ChatOWhitehall@aol.com
Subject: Re: [iris] REF: Translingual registrations
In a message dated 1/14/2007 9:26:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jgcrump@cox.net writes:
I think I remember reading about a fellow who was accused of fostering
disabmbiguation. Didnt they hang him?
Surely you are not troubling to go to town with my typo, Griff? And after
I
totally exhausted myself typing out suggestions about your wretched seeds.
Anent same: Note that Deno's experiments indicated that prolonged dry
stora
ge--holding over from a previous year counts-- increased the requirement
for
light on the seeds. If those are wilsonii or some other far eastern
siberian,
the germination requirement story may change.
AMW
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 12:08:04 -0800
From: John I Jones <jijones@usjoneses.com>
Subject: Re: [iris] Fw: Translingual registrations
On Jan 14, 2007, at 1:33 AM, loic tasquier wrote:
> Hello everyone !
>
> (I will send this to iris-talk as well, so the debate can go on there,
> instead
> of on iris-photo.)
>
> I'm sorry if i have sounded a bit obsessionnal to some of you, but i
> wanted to
> push the logic to the limit, hoping to show this way that there might
> be a
> problem somewhere!
>
> To the astonishment of many, we finally came up with an amazing
> conclusion :
> MEANING has nothing to do with the criteria used for naming an iris
> !...
I am not sure why you find it so astonishing. The ICNCP says nothing
about sound.
>
> Mike Lowe has decided that Eleanor d'Aquitaine and Eleanor of
> Aquitaine were
> different enough to be both registered.
That is not correct the two irises are:
Eleanor of Aquitaine
and
ALIENOR D'AQUITAINE
Which are obviously different names. I believe that the guidelines say
that non-English names should be transliterated not translated.
>
> Therefore, among all the people abroad who don't speak English ( they
> are
> around 6 billon there...), the ones who want to register an iris will
> know the
> proper procedure for doing so without wasting everybody's time with
> unproper
> names.
>
Seems that it has not been that much more a problem for non-English
speakers than English speakers.
John
John | "There be dragons here"
| Annotation used by ancient cartographers
| to indicate the edge of the known world.
List owner iris@hort.net and iris-photos@yahoogroups.com
________________________________________________
USDA zone 8/9 (coastal, bay)
Fremont, California, USA
Member AIS Board of Directors
Chairman, AIS Committee for Electronic Member Services
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Subscribe to iris@hort.net by sending:
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________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 21:30:18 +0100
From: "loic tasquier" <tasquierloic@cs.com>
Subject: [iris] Fw: Translingual registrations
I mean Alienor d' Aquitaine and Eleanor of Aquitaine
- ----- Original Message -----
From: loic tasquier
To: iris@hort.net
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 10:33 AM
Subject: Fw: Translingual registrations
Hello everyone !
(I will send this to iris-talk as well, so the debate can go on there,
instead
of on iris-photo.)
I'm sorry if i have sounded a bit obsessionnal to some of you, but i wanted
to
push the logic to the limit, hoping to show this way that there might be a
problem somewhere!
To the astonishment of many, we finally came up with an amazing conclusion
:
MEANING has nothing to do with the criteria used for naming an iris !...
But getting rid of the MEANING is not enough to avoid difficulties, and i
now
would like to know what are the criteria to decide what is too close, or
not
too close, in terms of LOOK and SOUND.
Mike Lowe has decided that Eleanor d'Aquitaine and Eleanor of Aquitaine
were
different enough to be both registered.
A whole page of justifications was needed to do so... ( This is not an easy
job, Mike, really! )
Now, it would be interesting to have examples of names he has refused for
being too close in terms of LOOK and SOUND, so we could understand where
the
line is drawn.
Therefore, among all the people abroad who don't speak English ( they are
around 6 billon there...), the ones who want to register an iris will know
the
proper procedure for doing so without wasting everybody's time with
unproper
names.
Loic
I
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 21:26:47 -0500
From: "J. Griffin Crump" <jgcrump@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [iris] REF: Translingual registrations
I think I remember reading about a fellow who was accused of fostering
disabmbiguation. Didnt they hang him? -- Griff
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <ChatOWhitehall@aol.com>
To: <iris@hort.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 7:09 PM
Subject: [iris] REF: Translingual registrations
> The simple goal of the registration system is to
> foster disabmbiguation . . .
> Cordially,
>
> Anner Whitehead
> Richmond VA USA
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:40:19 EST
From: Cseggen1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [iris] REF: Translingual registrations
I had to look this one up Anner
Main Entry: soph7ist7ry
(javascript:popWin('/cgi-bin/audio.pl?sophis11.wav=sophistry'))
Pronunciation: 'sd-f&-strE
Function: noun
1 : subtly deceptive reasoning or argumentation
Main Entry: soph7ism
(javascript:popWin('/cgi-bin/audio.pl?sophis01.wav=sophism'))
Pronunciation: 'sd-"fi-z&m
Function: noun
1 : an argument apparently correct in form but actually invalid;
especially
: such an argument used to deceive
I am often befuddled by your writing but on this subject I agree!
Is it really all that important? One would think that if a hybridizer
spent
as much time as it takes to introduce a new iris, that person would do all
they could to be certain the name was not confused with another hybridizers
product. And that's all I have to say about that!
Connie Eggen
Zone 5
Warsaw, Mo
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 09:20:03 EST
From: ChatOWhitehall@aol.com
Subject: Re: [iris] REF: Translingual registrations
In a message dated 1/15/2007 2:46:35 AM Eastern Standard Time,
tasquierloic@cs.com writes:
<<These two names refer to the same person, Alienor d'Aquitaine for the
French, or Eleanor of Aquitaine for the English.
Yes, that fact had not escaped me. She was a queen of both France and
England, which does add piquancy. Of course, England and France were not
then what
England and France are now, nor the languages, but, nevertheless, there it
is. The really interesting one was Henrietta Maria of France, wife of
Charles I
of England. When it became necessary to take up arms, she shouldered hers,
and led an army. She called herself, "Her She-Majesty, Generalissima,"
speaking of wonderful names. Cracks me up.
<<The only problem is that it's totally mechanical and, and in the case of
Historical figures, i really wonder where is the limit in disambiguation .
The process is not totally mechanical.
As the last step, a human being of benign temperament, adequate
intelligence, and no personal agendas, decides whether the name under
consideration is
likely to cause significant confusion in any one of several ways, or
whether it
is not. In some small number of cases this decision is one with which
other
persons of good will, adequate intelligence, and no personal agendas, may
disagree. So be it.
Of course, with each registration which enters the arena the terrain
changes, and the question of what disambiguation requires, becomes more
complex.
The only way to eliminate the registrar's sole subjective call, other than
to form a committee to come up with some joint subjective call, which idea
I
dismiss as no improvement on the current system, is to promulgate ever
more
rules, to the point where the process becomes as truly mechanical as
possible,
at which point another set of problems will no doubt be seen peeking
eagerly
over the horizon.
Do you want more rules?
Cordially,
Anner Whitehead
Richmond VA USA
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 19:00:50 -0700
From: "FRANCELLE EDWARDS" <FJMJEDWARDS@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: [iris] HYB: Frozen seeds
I have planted three 60 ft. double rows of seeds this winter. An injury
to my right wrist last fall made me slow in everything. My seeds are
planted = inched deep in garden soil. The first row was planted Dec. 9
and covered with frost protecting fabric. A few of them are just
beginning to come up. The second row had to wait until after all my
company left after New Years celebration, and it likewise got covered.
The third row was planted last week just before we got irrigation and I
didnt have time to cover it. Now we are having record cold. It got
down to 22 degrees F. last night. The seeds had been stored wet at 40
degrees in the refrigerator. About ten percent of them had started to
grow their tiny roots. Fortunately, my most desirable crosses got
planted first. The third row contains a number of crosses that are
mostly experiments. Now it seems that the first experiment will be to
see if any of them survive this freeze and germinate. Im asking those
of you with experience in planting seeds unprotected in freezing
conditions, what chances do they have?
Francelle Edwards Glendale, AZ Zone 9
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 18:36:33 -0800
From: John I Jones <jijones@usjoneses.com>
Subject: Re: [iris] REF: Translingual registrations
We may disagree with the extant naming conventions, wish to change it,
and want to debate interminably about it, but the simple fact remains
that the AIS is the designated worldwide registrar for rhizomatous
(well, I think that is the right word) irises. As such they are
required to comply with the international naming standards. Said
standards allow the names such as Alienor d'Aquitaine and Eleanor of
Aquitaine.
(for which, by the way, I don't have a problem, and I speak several
languages)
I deal with a lot of irises from many gardens and know very well that
people often mispronounce, mis-hear and misspell iris names and no
amount of restrictions on naming conventions would fix that problem.
John
On Jan 15, 2007, at 12:18 PM, loic tasquier wrote:
> Wouldn't you appreciate to understand the signification (since the the
> word "meaning" seams to hurt your ears ) of these phonetic
> transcriptions of Russian names such as : NE TRON MEDIA,
> PRIGLASITELNY BILET or RADOST BYTIYA that were registered in 2005?
>
> I personnaly would, and i also imagine it would make the work of the
> registrar slightly easier!
>
> Of course, there would always be names with such delicacy, subtillity
> and sophistication, that a translation or even a transcription would
> be "un crime de lese majeste"...
> Nevertheless, in most cases, it would be an improvement from the
> present situation, where the percentage of ununderstandable new names
> is increasing every year.
>
> Loic
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <ChatOWhitehall@aol.com>
> To: <iris@hort.net>
> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [iris] REF: Translingual registrations
>
>
>> In a message dated 1/15/2007 9:45:24 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>> tasquierloic@cs.com writes:
>>
>> <<I think it would make perfect sense to give the meaning in Engligh
>> of any
>> foreign name, on the registration file.
>>
>>
>> This depends on what you intend by 'meaning'. Do you intend a crude
>> uninflected translation, in which case I believe one of the online
>> translators will
>> do the trick, albeit oftimes with hilarious results, or do you intend
>> 'significance', with nuances?
>>
>> For example, the Sass brothers, miraculous to tell, named an iris
>> 'Beau
>> Ideal.'
>>
>> Unless there is a date typo in the 39CL, which is possible, and I
>> don't have
>> time to root around in the files right now because I am waiting for a
>> bunch
>> of hearties to deliver a new washing machine to the house, this Iris
>> predates
>> Wren's novel of the same name.
>>
>> In any case, how would one give the 'meaning' in English of that
>> venerable
>> philosophical and aesthetic construct, without two pages of text, and
>> a
>> bibliography.
>>
>>
>> Cordially,
>>
>> Anner Whitehead
>> Richmond VA USA
>>
>
------------------------------
End of iris DIGEST V1 #154
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