Re: OT : Iriswiki and copyright
iris@hort.net
  • Subject: Re: OT : Iriswiki and copyright
  • From: J* I* J* <j*@usjoneses.com>
  • Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:18:36 -0800
On Jan 21, 2010, at 3:32 PM, Anita Moran wrote:


Hi John You Bring up very good points.
Since AIS, and Bob can correct me if I am wrong, has essentially given it blessing for the wiki once it is one line it really has no ownership as much as we would like to think it does. There are ALWAYs ways to get data by fair or foul means. I have no problem with AIS THINKing they are sole ownership of the description because if they were try and enforce this it would essentially fall flat.
Perhaps, perhaps not. Granted the issue of whether a "compilation" qualifies for copyright protection and whether individual elements of that compilation deserve that protection is not particularly clear. However, the issue of copyright is in case of the AIS Wiki a smoke screen. Sincethe R&Is, Check Lists, irisregister and the AIS Wiki (properly referred to as the Iris Encyclopedia) are all AIS endevours copyright is not an issue.
As to the photos, that is an entirely different story. Photos no matter how or where they are placed are exclusive properties of the photographer.
Not if the photographs are taken as part of a contract and the contract transfers rights to the contract holder. I do that all the time.
Having said this I believe that if the photographer places those photos on the wiki once again catching someone kiping them it is hard to do anything about it. 

It also depends on what the photos are used for.
All I ask is that those who use my pictures give credit for I know they will be used even without it.
I believe the Wiki is probably the best advance AIS has ever made. Not only can it develop into a wonderful illistrated checklist, it can also be used by Judges at shows eventually, passers by couild not help but look, and once they look they will be hooked. I would like to see a link to join AIS more prominant but other than that I hope legalities do not impede this project. Perhaps we all should have asked permission to up load the descriptions but excitement truely got in the way and off I and many others went.
I have asked a couple hybridizers to send me electronic forms of their registrations and told them I would put them on the wiki and the seemed truely excited.
Let hope this can be a great addition to the AIS and the hybridizer as well. 

Anita


-----Original Message-----

From: John Bruce <jbruce1@cinci.rr.com>
Sent: Jan 21, 2010 4:43 PM
To: iris@hort.net
Subject: [iris] OT : Iriswiki and copyright

I have been following the development of the iriswiki and the current
controversy with a great deal of interest. I have seen some comments that have made me feel I needed to post something and possibly get clarification on or open up broader dialogue on. This is a little long, so if you have no interest 
simply hit the delete key.
One issue is the concern over using official R&I descriptions in the iriswiki, particularly copyright infringement and intellectual property infringement. As a hybridizer I grow and evaluate seedlings. I decide what cross to make and which resultant seedling will be introduced. Until I sell or give that plant out there is no doubt that it is MY property and a result of my physical and intellectual intervention upon mother nature. I also create the description and deliver the other information necessary to complete the registration form, so one would have to assume that that description is really MY intellectual property. I also pay a fee for the registrar to process that information and publish it in printed materials known as Checklists, which I then purchase. I do not have a problem with this. I also pay a yearly fee to access the online checklist for the ease of checking names and researching parentages. Again, I have no problem with this fee. I certainly hope the AIS at least recoups the cost of producing the print checklists, including compensation for the registrar and storefront. I also hope the AIS at a minimum covers the costs of 
keeping the electronic checklists going. If there is cash left over,
great...it can be used for enhancements or to help in other areas. Where I have a problem is with the concept that the AIS owns the intellectual property and copyright over these entries, to wit that they may not be used for another AIS venture such as the wiki or catalogs. If I introduce the iris, does this mean I am violating a copyright for using the R&I entry I created? Do I need 
"express written consent of the copyright holder" before I do this?
I certainly understand protecting the information, particularly from other entities profiting from it such as Dave's Garden (which by the way refuses to correct information even when provided by the hybridizer themself). However, one needs to consider that something like the iriswiki will serve the function of the AIS to promote irises, and to a vast audience which the 8000 or so members of the AIS pales to in comparison. People will see irises and learn about them, reduce frustration by knowing what may not grow in what area, etc. I grow daylilies....their cultivar info is available in many places on the 'net for free. I also believe the fee for registering a daylily cultivar is optional. Unless it has changed, only North American hybridizers must pay for registrations...I am not sure I understand that one. Anyway, the Hemerocallis 
Society doesn't seem to be having as many woes as AIS.
I have talked with many people who are current and past members of AIS. I am a "past" member myself. There are many who feel that AIS is far too slow to change and somewhat elitist. There is annually the discussion about falling membership and cash flow. A free dissemination of information such as the iriswiki is certainly not going to add much to the demise of the organization, but it could very well aid it. Dinosaurs ruled the earth for 300 million years until the lack of ability to adapt to changing conditions made them extinct. 

My .02 for what it's worth.

John Bruce

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Anita Moran
Pilmore Gardens
USDA 6B
Maryland
AIS, ASI, FSKIS

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