Re: Re: HYB: germination - chill time

<<could only be beneficiall from extra removal of seed inhibitor, which could be 
acomplished by periodic washing/rincing of damp seeds. No befits of
extra chilling hours.>>

Chuck,
Based on this point, would longer washing and rinsing reduce or even eliminate the number of second year germinates? What happens if I double the days of rinsing to 10?
If all seed are given this treatment, would to many inhibitors be removed from the less needy, thus allowing early spring freeze damage? 


Betty W.
In zone 6, my part, we have many cold but not freezing days.



-----Original Message-----
From: irischapman@aim.com
To: iris@hort.net
Sent: Mon, Jun 29, 2009 6:52 am
Subject: [iris] Re: HYB: germination - chill time



I would suggest shelling or just leaving unshelled pod untill you have
time to shell. Then place in your buritto. Or in some damp peat moss,
which seems to acelerate germination. Scientifically tested, as well as
personal experience. Time sitting dry, especailly at room temperature
seems to reduce chilling needs, when subsequently moistened and
chilled. So not a problem sitting dry. Decaying seed pod could very
well damage seeds, with increased bacteria etc. Personally I'd rather
shell a dry pod then remove a rotten squishy and smelly decayed pod.
Then have to wash seeds after.

The extra time ( that is five months versus 3 months) could only be
beneficiall from extra removal of seed inhibitor, which could be
acomplished by periodic washing/rincing of damp seeds. No befits of
extra chilling hours.

You have to realize that chilling in nature is in cold periods , no
accumulated hours during frozen time ( actually some experiments
showing some chilling accumulated in some species at -2C, but not clear
if this is selected species or in all situations, but at a much slower
rated then at optimum chilling temps of 3-10C) There is nothing in
nature that would be equivalent to 5 months of chilling. That would be
five month of winter with no frozen time of any significace. Just
doesn't happen anywhere. So the five months is an artifact of your
method.

I just checked my temp records here. Six months available for chilling
temps in a regular winter. Ground frozen for close to three of those
months. Leaving about 3 months of chilling available. In slightly
warmer areas there may actually be a higher percentage of winter time
available for chilling, but shorter time periods available.

Chuck Chapman

-----Original Message-----
From: iris DIGEST <iris-owner@hort.net>
To: iris-digest@hort.net
Sent: Sun, Jun 28, 2009 11:45 am
Subject: [iris] iris DIGEST V1 #879


iris DIGEST Sunday, June 28 2009 Volume 01 : Number
879



In this issue:

[iris] Re: HYB: germination - chill time
Re: [iris] Re: HYB: pod size vs. seed quantity

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 14:58:27 -0400
From: Linda Mann <lmann@lock-net.com>
Subject: [iris] Re: HYB: germination - chill time

Thanks for the detailed post, Chuck. Surprising that such warm temps
are considered "chilling". No wonder the topic is so confusing!

Re: non-shelled seeds: The moisture in the pods keeps seeds hydrated, &
the loosely folded plastic baggie keeps the moisture there.

Some of the IMMORTALITY crosses take the longest chilling and have the
lowest % germination. Not all, though, and I haven't detected any
trends for which ones they are. My suspicion is that seed development
is stressed before/during bloom & during pod formation, not genetic,
other than susceptibility to stress?

Most crosses here take around 3 months of chilling - that's when I used
to take all burritos out of the fridge. Some wouldn't germinate till
the second round of chilling. So now I don't take them out until at
least one seed from the cross has started to sprout.

Or after ~5 months (~first of Dec; occasionally later for really late
pods), whichever comes first ;-)

I think the Spoons have said that they get better germination with 4
months than with just 3, which is why I started leaving them in the
fridge a little longer.

Benefit of not shelling immediately is that it just suits my
temperament
better than having to shell each one the minute the pod starts to
split.
Less trouble to just pop the pod in a baggie and put it in the
fridge.

This way, I can shell a batch of them when I'm in the mood/stuck
indoors
because of air quality/allergens/heat/rain. As long as I get them all
burrito'd within a couple of months. Nothing has shown any sign of
starting to sprout in the pods so far.'

I'm not sure I know what you mean by "too early harvest" - you mean
they
mature too early here, compared to ? Typical timing from pollination
to
pod split is variable - 8 to 12 weeks. Mostly ~8 weeks. Faster in
hot,
dry weather. Usually.

I try not to harvest until the pod starts to split, unless the stalk
rots. Then I leave as much green stalk as possible with the pod on a
sunny window sill to ripen indoors. Splitting pods usually have turned
partially brown, but still have some green, quite a bit on some. Seed
color (seen thru the split in the pod) varies from nearly white to dark
brown; average is tan.

Maybe you are thinking of the miracle 5 day old pod snapped off by the
microburst? That pod not only matured normal looking seeds, but they
actually germinated! Totally unexpected and bizarre.

No noticeable difference in germination rate/required time of chilling
between immediately shelled & shelled later, but that's comparing
different years.

Before I set the thermostat in the fridge high enough to make sure
seeds
<never> freeze in burritos, germination was worse. I think. Again,
comparing different years.

<Linda, I suspect your procedure has some elements that make germination
slower. ie: occasional drying out which resets chilling hour clock. Or
perhaps too early a harvest coupled with putting unshelled pods into
burritos. I can't see any benefit of not shelling pod before placing in
cold environment>

Linda Mann
TN
Rhizome sale today and tomorrow

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 00:59:56 -0400
From: "J. Griffin Crump" <jgcrump@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [iris] Re: HYB: pod size vs. seed quantity

Heinz Siebenundfuenfzig, the fabulous German hybridizer, found that
flat
seeds produce Japanese irises. Siebenundfuenfzig ("S" to his friends)
had
intended to introduce as 'Six Shooter' a seedling emanating from a pod
that
had double the usual number of chambers and which reminded him of his
favorite revolver, but the name was already taken (Ralph Coleman, R.
1973).
"S"'s hybridizing endeavors were pursued on a grand scale. He walked
with a
limp, the result of an unfortunate accident when a single seed the size
of a
bowling ball fell from its pod onto his foot. "S" is credited with
being
the originator of the phrase, "Size does matter." -- Griff


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "greenthumbs" <greenthumbs777@yahoo.com>
To: <iris@hort.net>
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: [iris] Re: HYB: pod size vs. seed quantity



Thanks, all. I hope there's a lot of seeds, but there's only one

way to

find out I guess. :)

I won't throw out any seeds. I don't care what size they are or

what

they look like. I'm hoping for a good seed qty and germination. I

can't

wait to see what the blooms look like. Especially that 10% that may

be

flat. :)


David
IN
Z5b



------------------------------

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