HYB: genetics questions:my garden
iris@hort.net
  • Subject: HYB: genetics questions:my garden
  • From: a*@aol.com
  • Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2010 17:31:00 -0400
<<One of the things that I have observed in my garden is that there is a
correlation between number of buds and flower size.  Stalks with very large
blossoms tend to have a
maller number of buds.>>

Francelle's observations remind me of the way Dusky Challenger behaves.  We've
discussed this before and it's in the archives, but DC is an interesting
study.  My "Best Specimen of Show" had huge blooms, intense color, and only
four buds.  Some years it blooms with seven buds,but the color is less
outstanding and the blooms are smaller.  Either way it's a gorgeous and worthy
iris, but in it's former state it is outstanding.  Frankly, I consider myself
lucky when it goes for four buds!

Triple terminals, on seedlings, sometimes evolve into double terminal and
lower spur.  Surprises me every time!  It does make for more room for bloom
development.

Large blooms are not always better.  They can lead to blooms/stalks hitting
the ground.  Poem of Ecstacy and Supreme Sultan come to mind.  One year they
were blooming side by side and opened within a day of each other.  This was
quite a spectacular sight until the second bloom opened.  Then, all stalks of
both cultivars hit the ground!  The stalks couldn't support the weight.  Wind
is almost constant on my hill and the taller stalks with big blooms always
have more trouble.

Foliage and stalk characteristics are more readily passed by the pod parent.
In the early days of my program, I was advised that it's influence was over
70%, so I've always tried to use the taller, better branched, stronger iris as
the pod parent.  Of course, it's not always possible.

As a rule of thumb, like breeds like.  This was brought home to me with
1703:1403-02W(Edith Wolford x 0660-02(Silverado x Latin Lady) X
1004-01:0524-05re(Immortality x Pledge Allegiance x
0637-01ReBrSt(Immortality x Beau Zam).  Both seedlings were white with good
branching.  I remember that the pod parent was the only white self from the
cross, but the pollen parent was from a cross which had produced all white
seedlings.  This cross produced all white seedlings with great branching and
better form than the parents.  Considering the ancestors, I was surprised at
all white seedlings.  Could be that I'd have gotten more variations if I'd
bloomed 1,000 or even 100 seedlings.  I rarely have that type of commitment.
One has rebloomed, but is not reliable here.

I'll never know everything I want to know about irises, especially the
rebloomers.   If I did, we would have beautiful irises that bloom all summer
in my zone 6 garden!   Although I'm not an expert, I've been making crosses
for 25 years and hope my experiences can help others.

I've not done many crosses involving purple on white plicatas, but I decided
to do some experiments this year.  These are seeds still in the pods in the
garden so anything can happen . . . but along the lines of the experiments
Chuck mentioned, here is a rundown.

I've always loved Vanishing Act.  In warm weather it looks like just another
tall white iris, but in a cool spring it has pale blue standards and a 3/4
inch blue fall band!  The pod parent was Autumn Encore X Laced Cotton.  The
pollen parent was an unknown reblooming iris sent to me by Lloyd Zurbrigg.  It
was marked Renown, but it was misnamed.  No idea what it was, but it rebloomed
like crazy.  VA is tall and gives good children.   I've used it in fun crosses
off and on.  Because it's tall, I've only used it as a pod parent.   It always
gives tall seedlings with fairly modern form, good branching and bud count,
and I've liked something about each and every one.  The clincher is that, in
addition to fall bloom, VA bloomed in July in Zone 6.  So . . .

Vanishing Act received pollen from three strong summer bloomers.  The goal is
to see how each bonds or meshes with VA, both similarities and differences.
With luck, they'll summer bloom while retaining the height, branching, and
good form I've gotten before.  Some might call it comparative analysis!   All
together there are seven plicata crosses and a couple more that could produce
a low number of plicatas in this year's pods.  Others are a lot more
interesting!  That's a lot of plicatas for me.

Does all rebloom lead to short stalks as Linda suspects?  I've agreed, yet
I've crossed some of these short seedlings with taller, non-reblooming
cultivars and the results have been promising.  Not sure the height will hold
in the next generation but I'll know in a year or so.


Still plugging along . . . , but still dreaming.

Betty Wilkerson
Bridge In Time Iris
Ky Zone 6 . . . .




-----Original Message-----
From: Francelle <fjmjedwards@q.com>
To: iris@hort.net
Sent: Mon, Jun 7, 2010 12:56 pm
Subject: RE: [iris] re:re: HYB: genetics questions....


I am certainly not a geneticist like Chuck Chapman, and I have had only ten
ears of hybridizing experience.  I have picked up a few things from this
ist, but most of what I know is from observation.  One of the things that I
ave observed in my garden is that there is a correlation between number of
uds and flower size.  Stalks with very large blossoms tend to have a
maller number of buds.  Those with several triple socketed terminals tend
o have smaller flowers.  This is true both of commercial irises and my own
eedlings.  It is as though the stalks can produce only a certain amount of
lossom material.  There are exceptions, but this seems to be a general
ule.
Francelle Edwards  Glendale, AZ  Zone 9

----Original Message-----
rom: owner-iris@hort.net [o*@hort.net] On Behalf Of mahlberg

ent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 2:52 PM
o: iris@hort.net
ubject: [iris] re:re: HYB: genetics questions....
Thanks for the info.
I generally, as a rule, get rid of the 'inferior plants'.
eing only a handful of years into hybridizing, I haven't experienced too
any
enerations of seedlings yet either.
However, last year I kept one of the 'runty' f1 and backcrossed it to
randparent stock just to see what kind of seedlings I'll get.
'm expecting to get more small, ''run of the mill'' purples like the f1.
ime
ill tell a season or two down the line :)
ut to relieve curiosity and satisfy my hopes of finding or not refinding
randparents genetic material, I made the backcross to one of the
randparents
tock, both directions,  and have a few survivng seedlings from last year.
nd
o oversimplify genetics, gave the f2 a 'double dose?' of grandparents
enes.
on't know if the pods set this year on grandma plant or not, as I made the
ross only a couple of days ago.
've noticed, as well, that over the years backcrossing was done more many
enerations ago, but not so much more recently. But there's also a lot more
o
hoose from now as opposed to 60 or 70 years ago. I don't recall right off
ithout looking it up, but maybe it was in one of  the Sass lines that were
ackcrossed a lot...
f course, this isn't my main focus on hybridizing, simply a curiosity
egarding a bit about genetics and inheritance in irises. I'm likely to
iscover the pointless time waste of backcrossing inferior plants. But
here's
 little room in the garden for another baby...
thanks for all the input and advice.
more seedlings to flower coming this year in a few more days!
f it stops raining I can pollinate some, otherwise I may have to call in
ick.
How do you tell your boss, "Ummm, It's sunny and dry for a change,  I'm
ollinating flowers today, I won't be in, sorry."
)
steve m. zone 4b
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