Re: Re: HYB: REB: Genetics of rebloom (was orange)
iris@hort.net
  • Subject: Re: Re: HYB: REB: Genetics of rebloom (was orange)
  • From: B* W* <a*@aol.com>
  • Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 08:50:17 -0400 (EDT)
<<I didn't mention  the California rebloomers.>>
Traditionally & officially, CA rebloomers have been called "sporadic
rebloomers," based on their behavior rather than where they occur.  I've used
the term "CA rebloom" when speaking to the general gardening public, since
many seem to recognize the term more readily.

As stated in an article in the RIS a couple of years ago, it's my opinion that
these and the summer rebloomers (my term) are the same with different
modifiers.  Modifiers being soil, temperature, moisture, etc. . The ones I see
bloom in the summer (thus my term "summer rebloomers") simply appear to need
weaker triggers or modifiers.  I believe they are currently recognized (judges
handbook) as "Multiple Blooming Irises."  Neither group requires the specific
set of modifiers needed for fall cycle rebloom.

This is what I privately call the "loosy goosey" gene, assuming that rebloom
is the presence of a gene/genes rather than the absence of a gene as
speculated by some.  Either way, it is something that comes from within the
plant rather than being supplied by the microclimate.

This is my opinion based on what I've observed in my garden over a period of
twenty five years and reports I've read from other locations.  I've spent much
of that time trying to transfer some of the genetics from the "Sporadic" group
to the "Multiple Bloom Irises" (or summer) group.  It's my opinion that the
mixing of the two sets of genes are responsible for "Suky" & "Lunar Whitewash"
and others of a more progressive form.
<<The summer rebloomers and Whenever rebloomers seem to be a recessive gene
combined with at least one dominant gene.>>
 "Fall Cycle" rebloom does appear more easy to obtain, but it is more
restricted in potential.  In an average year, my fall cycle begins on Oct 1
and our first freeze is Oct 15. Hardly worth the massive effort!   "Summer
Rebloomers" contain the ability to fall bloom, also.  Seedlings from this
breeding have appeared to be "fall cycle rebloomers," but suddenly throw
summer stalks.  Why not breed for the greater possibilities?

The things I've grown as "Summer Rebloomers" have the ability to bloom from
spring season till fall freeze.  Additional bloom in June, July, August,
September, and October.  Most years they do not bloom in all of these months
due to heat and/or drought.  I've seen All Revved Up bloom each of these
months in the same summer.  I've identified five of mine as having this
ability.


In addition, Total Recall, Renown and others have been reported to bloom
earlier than the average cycle rebloomer. Most were reported in July but
apparently they can rebloom in various summer months.  Some of there rebloom
more easily and more often than the others.

 "Whenever" implies a sporadic component, much the same as the CA (sporadic)
rebloomers.  Yet, the "Summer" group are sporadic too, dependent on modifiers.

How are we to tell the "Whenever Rebloomers"  from the "Summer Rebloomers?"

Betty W.
Zone 6 (KY)




-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Chapman <irischapman@aim.com>
To: iris <iris@hort.net>
Sent: Sat, Mar 12, 2011 6:02 pm
Subject: Re: [iris] Re: HYB: REB: Genetics of rebloom (was orange)


I didn't mention  the California rebloomers.
But to try and clarify.  There are four different types of rebloom genetics,
s far as I can tell.
The  summer rebloomers and Whenever rebloomers seem to be a recessive gene
ombined with at least one dominant gene.
Fall cyili and California rebloomers seem to be a dominant trait. Note I'm
not
aying a dominant gene. It is actually a combination of traits, but end result
s treat as a dominant.
The temperature trigger for bud set  is same for  FC, Summer and  Cal
ebloomers. Whenever rebloomers are different in this characteristic.
While I had  originally thought  that FC rebloomers were responding to a
aylight trigger, I'm reconsidering this  in light of new data. I suspect a
ime at maturity  with bud set to be the trigger.  Similar in some respects to
al rebloomers. Still need to figure out differences. But Cal rebloomers need
uch more time as a mature plant. Live and learn.
Plants have clocks and calenders, but not sure how they use them. But clocks
o stop working when plant is in drought or heat dormancy
All rebloomers  can carry a primed rhizome over winter. This is easier and
ore likely in warmer climates. So  they can then have out of season bloom,
ith carry over from increases on primed  rhizomes. The increases in these
ases don't get reset.
Normally a  plant will reset  vernalization condition  in the increases by
he blooming. But off season set coupled with  wintering over seems to
revents (or interfere with) this reset. Part of this could be that increase
re too large by time main fan blooms, so reset doean't work.
I'm beginning to suspect that  we could  bring rebloom from Ca rebloomers
arlier into season by selection.  But not likely able to increase plant
ardiness unless these are trialed and selected in  more adverse climates.

huck Chapman





---- Original Message ----
rom: Linda Mann <lmann@lock-net.com>
o: iris@hort.net
ent: Sat, Mar 12, 2011 8:59 am
ubject: [iris] Re: HYB: REB: Genetics of rebloom (was orange)

'm a little confused by this, Chuck.  I understand what you are saying about
eaf count, vigor etc, but this (combined with your earlier posts) sounds as
f you are saying there are two different sets of genetics controlling rebloom
summer & cycle, the former recessive, the latter dominant), but the
xpression of rebloom (phenotype) is the same?
So there could be June & August (usually too hot in July here for the lines
of
rises that thrive in my growing conditions) bloom from either, if growing
eason is long enough and temperatures suitable?  So in a very mild winter,
ollowed by warm spring, and cool summer, the cycles could also bloom in
ummer?  So change in daylength isn't a factor in cycle rebloom?
If that's what you are saying, I don't believe it.  But that's just my gut
eaction, no data.
I can see that would apply to "CA" rebloomers, & if that's also dominant,
hat's definitely something I'd enjoy having here.  Some lines not as
ensitive to heat inhibiting bloom as some of the really healthy growers here.
Or is that what you are thinking re: cycle rebloomers, that they are actually
he same as CA, but with different temperature limitations? More tolerant to
eat, less to erratic cold.
Thought provoking ;-)
<By selecting  the most vigourous growers and ones with lowest mature leaf
ount, you move  bloom time forward.
The weather conditions that set flower buds is the same for summer rebloom
and
all cyclic.
The weather conditions that inhibit  rebloom is the same for both.
So if a plant matures fast enought to get bud set before  too warm weather
ets in, you will get  early fall cylcic rebloom.  Same with summer
ebloomers.>
Linda Mann east TN USA zone 7
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