Re: Re: HYB: REB: Genetics of rebloom
iris@hort.net
  • Subject: Re: Re: HYB: REB: Genetics of rebloom
  • From: C* C* <i*@aim.com>
  • Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 00:44:35 -0400
Certainly easy to tell? in a a cultivar regularly replanted. In an established
clump several years old, not so easy? to tell. You can tell something
previously bloomed, but by looking at it can't tell when.? And increases are
now full sized plants. Could very well have been sitting there since spring.
and not bloomed then.

I find the out of season bloomers, can switch over after a few years of their
pattern.? Had this with a couple of "rebloomers" that for a few years bloomed
regularly in fall but not spring. When they switched over, bloomed in spring,
but not in fall.

But I do prefer cultivars that bloom two or more times in a season.

Chuck Chapman








---- Original Message ----
From: Betty Wilkerson &lt;autmirislvr@aol.com&gt;
To: iris@hort.net
Sent: Tue, Mar 22, 2011 7:57 pm
Subject: Re: [iris] Re: HYB: REB: Genetics of rebloom




I've always found this very confusing.  Why is it hard to tell if more than
one stalk has emerged from the same rhizome?  The scar would still be there?
There is only one location on a rhizome that a stalk emerges?  Or did I miss
something?

If a stalk emerges from an increase on a rhizome (down the side) it is from
one of the increases!  Not from the original rhizome.

Several years ago, Echo Location bloomed like a christmas tree!  I counted
over 22 blooms on three stalks emerging from the same spot on the rhizome.  I
have a picture in my archives.  It was easy to tell that the stalks all came
from the same spot.  Like Siamese twins.



&lt; it is sometimes hard to remember if that same
ultivar bloomed in spring, so is it a rebloom or is it delayed bloom.&gt;&gt;

If an iris consistently puts up delayed bloom in July, would that not be as
valuable as rebloom?

Maybe everything (not in the spring) is just delayed bloom?


Betty Wilkerson
Bridge in Time Iris Garden
Zone 6 KY





-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Chapman &lt;irischapman@aim.com&gt;
To: iris &lt;iris@hort.net&gt;
Sent: Tue, Mar 22, 2011 10:50 am
Subject: Re: [iris] Re: HYB: REB: Genetics of rebloom


 Pure as Gold has rebloomed here as a summer rebloomer for the past two
years.
his summer in two diferernt clumps, located in differernt iris beds. I think
thers have reported summer rebloom from it. But I'll give a cravat with this.
 saw summer bloom, but can't honestly sayB  that I had seen it bloom in
pring, so may have just been summer bloom, and not rebloom.
So the natural question is, did Lullaby of Spring bloom in spring? Only
report
f rebloom has been zone 8/9. This question crops up often. That is when we
ee out of normal season bloom, it is sometimes hard to remember if that same
ultivar bloomed in spring, so is it a rebloom or is it delayed bloom.
"Facilitative rebloom" is the term used for a plant that can bloom without
ernalization, ifB  conditions are right. Blooms earlier with vernalization,
ut given right conditions can bloom without. A long growing season, after bud
et, say 4-5 moths can provide these conditions. So a plant that reblooms only
n zones 8 or 9B  is very likely ofthis type. So a very normal condition.
nlike Fall Cyclic, that is are combination of dormancy and vernalization
ene, and Whenevr and Summer rebloom which may very well be mutations in
ormal bloom "supression" genesB  which are ther to prevent out of season
loom, which are normally a waste of plant resorces.
For me, this is a very specific trigger of fall bloom, and I don't include
poratics from outsideB  these ag zones in clasification of Cal rebloomers.
'm tying to classify rebloomers by the specific genetic controls ofB  their
ut of season bloom. This is my way of trying to understand rebloom and to use
his information in breeding. So general sporatics, are not necessarily
acilitative vernalization in their genetic control, so grouping in this
lassificationB  would defeat my purpose.
When you look atB  weather in a lot of California and OZ locations, it is
hard
o see that these locations can get enough cold weather to getB  proper
ernalization. Remember the Utah model of vernalization? Get chill units for
ach hour between 34-40 F and lose chill units for each hour above 60F
simplified for convenience).
Some plants from warm climates show good cold hardiness. They are the ones
I'm
sing. If they don't grow well in my climate I'll use them only if no other
hoice for colour or pattern, and then only as pollen parent.
Earlier Bloom Trigger: I have noticed that once bud set has been initiated in
ain fan, that the increases start to grow.B  The main fan seems to suppress
rowth of increase until bud set is initiated. As fall progresses, some TB
ill have some cultivars with increases with much larger size then others.
his suggests that these cultivars have set bud initiation earlier then other
ultivars. Perhaps at a lower temperature then others, or perhaps with fewer
ays at bud set temperatures. This year in fall, while taking garden
nventory, I made note of these cultivars. I plan on using this information in
electing cultivars to use in rebloom breeding. It will also be useful in
electing plants to breed for cold climate hardiness. The reasoning on this,
s that a lot of plants fade out over time in cold climates as they have
roblems with bud initiation before winter, and thus donbt have increases to
arry on plant into following bloom season. And thus slowly fade out with
ime, as eventually no increases to carry on.
Chuck Chapman


---- Original Message ----
rom: Linda Mann &lt;lmann@lock-net.com&gt;
o: iris@hort.net
ent: Tue, Mar 22, 2011 10:05 am
ubject: [iris] Re: HYB: REB: Genetics of rebloom
   A few different ideas in this thread - just to clarify a bit.B

When I say "CA rebloomers", I mean what I think the handbook calls  sporadic
ebloomers.  In particular, I mean irises that may not  originally come from
A, but rebloom in ideal growing conditions esp in  CA/OZ.  In particular, the
ind of CA rebloom I'm curious about is the  kind that occurs in Jul/Aug in
A.  Some examples I've heard about  include LULLABY OF SPRING and PURE AS
OLD.B

Curious about what would happen to seedlings of these mixed with super  tough
urbrigg lines in my growing conditions.B

Otherwise, Oz/CA genes appeal more for the patterns, colors, and form.  If
hey are prolific rebloomers there, that's nice, and would love it if  those
enes can contribute something to rebloom, but that's not the  reason for
rying to use them.B

Linda Mann east TN USA zone 7B

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