Re: breeding 6 fall irises

   >My experience breeding from the 'New Perspective' line is that flat x
flat  
gives 100% flat. I have bloomed about 300 seedlings of this type.>

The
trait in that particular variety must be recessive then? Your comment about
'Judy Mogil' makes good sense.


   >However, there  is a variation in the
expression of the character depending largely on the growing conditions for
the individual plant.>

I'd say that's to be expected. Environmental factors
can influence various genetic traits in some living organisms. 

   >Typically
'New Perspective' blooms  "normal" or partially converted the first year or
sometimes just early in the  bloom season becoming flatter later.>

The
striping on the tree peony 'Shima-Nishiki' can behave in a similar manner.
>The biggest problem with the flats, at least for me, is form. Usually the 
flats show up one in a cross so the chance of selecting good form is highly
problematic.>

It seems even greater odds of developing anything with a good
quality specific color pattern, good branching, good bud count, and form all
in one.


   >This means that these sports need to be cross with 3 fall type
with great form, branching, etc. and back crossing these seedlings together
and with flats. Could take several generations to  get anything worth
introducing.>

Sounds like breeding good birds. Same steps.


   >Some
non-flat varieties will give flats when crossed with a flat. One way  
to find
these is to study parentages of flats that come from non-flats.>

That sounds
easier than trial and error, which may never produce anything!

   I have been
crossing 'Batik' to 'Six Pack' this yr. Trying to get that splatter appearance
in a flat. Probably a huge shot in the dark...


David
















--- On
Wed, 5/27/09, RAINACRE@aol.com <RAINACRE@aol.com> wrote:

> From:
RAINACRE@aol.com <RAINACRE@aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [iris] breeding 6 fall
irises
> To: iris@hort.net
> Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2009, 1:18 PM
> My
experience breeding from the 'New
> Perspective' line is that flat x flat  
>
gives 100% flat. I have bloomed about 300 seedlings of this
> type. However,
> there  is a variation in the expression of the
> character depending largely
> on the  growing conditions for the individual plant.
> Typically 'New 
>
Perspective' blooms  "normal" or partially converted
> the first year or
sometimes just 
> early in the  bloom season becoming flatter later. I
> think
that there are 
> several kinds of  flat tall beards and not all kinds
> are
transmitted in the 
> same way. 'Judy Mogul'  seems not to be a 'New
>
Perspective' sort. The fact 
> flowers show white  sections in the converted
falls
> shows that it wants to be 
> an amoena, but the  expression is altered
by the flat
> factor. The fact that 
> a flat is not  always flat can be a
good thing. It is
> often these off type 
> flowers are the only  ones with
pollen and the only
> chance to breed from the 
> variety. I think those  flat
varieties which produce
> six good beards of the 
> same size are the best 
varieties to breed from.
>  
> I have good pods on 'New Perspective' with my
flat intro
> for this year  
> 'Orbison' and I am looking forward to seeing
the seedlings
> bloom.
>  
> The biggest problem with the flats, at least for
me, is
> form. Usually the  
> flats show up one in a cross so the chance of
selecting
> good form  is highly 
> problematic. This means that these sports
need to be 
> cross with 3 fall 
> type with great form, branching, etc. and
back crossing
> these  seedlings 
> together and with flats. Could take
several generations
> to  get anything worth 
> introducing. 
>  
> Some
non-flat varieties will give flats when crossed with a
> flat. One way  
> to
find these is to study parentages of flats that come
> from non-flats.  
>
'Orbison' is from 'Diobolique' x ('World Tour' x 'Kathleen
> Kay Nelson').  
>
'Diabolique" might be related to 'Indigo Princess' which
> Mike mentioned.
>
> Fred Kerr
> Rainbow Acres
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