Re: Re: breeding 6 fall irises

   >I was thinking F2 is F1 X F1 sib>

Ahh.

   >Back crossing F1 to parent
would be fine if you were trying to reestablish one recessive, but it wouldn't
get you to goal of two recessives.>

True!


   >versus 6 crosses of F2 X F1
.>

That's actually not too bad, and pretty good statistics! Just 6 crosses
isn't bad at all. Of course I will no doubt need lots of seedlings to trial
from each one, but still it's better than I had expected.

   Thanks, Chuck!
David
















--- On Sat, 5/30/09, irischapman@aim.com
<irischapman@aim.com> wrote:

> From: irischapman@aim.com
<irischapman@aim.com>
> Subject: [iris] Re: breeding 6 fall irises
> To:
iris@hort.net
> Date: Saturday, May 30, 2009, 6:54 PM
> I was thinking F2 is
F1 X F1 sib
> 
> Back crossing F1 to parent would be fine if you were trying
>
to reestablish one recessive, but it wouldn't get you to
> goal of two
recessives.
> 
> By picking a  flat or a plicata seedling from 
> F2, from F1
sibling crosses you would have one parent with
> one recessive trait fixed. In
a F2 of this type  1/4 of
> the plants would have only one gene or no genes 
of the
> second recessive. 26 out of 36 plants would have the second
>
recessive with 2 or 3 of the second
> recessive.   F1 is known to have two
sets of
> genes of each recessive so you are getting 1/6 of seedlings
> with
the F2 fixed recessive and 1/36 to 1/12  with the
> second recessive.
Improving odds of getting  the double
> recessive seedling you are looking
for.
> 
> As 1/4 of F2 have one or none of the second recessive gene,
> it is
necessary to select several seedlings for a backcross
> to F1.
> 
> Of course
you could cross two F2 seedlings to each other,
> but you would need to select
about 6  cultivars 
> and cross each with each other for a total of 26
>
crosses  versus 6 crosses of F2 X F1 . This is
> necessary because of the 1/4
of F2 having only one or none
> of second recessive.  You need to play
statistics so
> odds are in your favour.
> 
> Chuck Chapman
> 
> Date: Fri, 29
May 2009 11:20:50 -0700 (PDT)
> From: greenthumbs <greenthumbs777@yahoo.com>
>
Subject: Re: [iris] Re: breeding 6 fall irises
> 
>    I know exactly what
you're talking about.
> F2 x F1 in my birds has produced
> amazing results. I
can see the striking similarities with
> irises and going
> back to the flat
pod parent just as I have gone back to the
> maternal fowl line
> with the
F2s.
> 
>   So it would be something like this...
> 
> Six Pack x Batik = F1
>
Six Pack x F1 = F2
> 
> F2 x F1
> ... With each filial cross involving
multiple
> crosses between its members.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> David
> 
> 
> 
>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - --- On Fri,
> 5/29/09,
irischapman@aim.com
> <irischapman@aim.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > From:
>
irischapman@aim.com
> <irischapman@aim.com>
> > Subject: [iris] Re: breeding 6
> fall irises
> > To: iris@hort.net
> > Date: Friday, May 29, 2009, 1:52 PM
>
> 
> <<<<Date: Thu, 28 May
> > 2009 11:35:00 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: greenthumbs
> <greenthumbs777@yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [iris] Re: breeding 6 fall
irises
> > 
> >    > Following usuall odds of BC, you
> > would need about
3-4000 seedlings to
> get
> > a chance of getting one BC, again depending on
>
particular
> > alleles of
> plicata
> > not being relevant. Many more if it is
relevant.>
> > 
> > Thanks,
> Chuck! I was
> > guessing it would be into the
thousands, as per an
> earlier
> > 
> remark I made about
> > only getting 3
seedlings so far and likely needing
> 100s
> or
> > even 1,000s, I just
> >
wasn't sure how many 1,000s. I have plenty of
> space; 21
> > acres. I'm just
not
> > looking to do that much weeding! LOL
> > 
> David>.>>
> > 
> > 
> > 
>
> Best bet would be to do as many F1 seeds as possible.
> > 
> Select best of
seedlings   for F2 cross.
> > Again as many seeds as you can
> handle. Select
from F2 for
> > flat and for plicata or if lucky
> BC.   select
> > 
> several
seedlings from these reselect and cross back to a
> > selected F1 or
> several
F1 plants. Odds are you will have a
> > flat with two or plicata genes
> and a
plicata with two or
> > more flat genes  (as long as you select about 6
> > 
>
or more of F2 to try.)
> > 
> > F2 X F1  should give you something to work
with.
> > 
> > Chuck Chapman
> > 
> > 
> -
>
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