Re: iris DIGEST V1 #953

The oncers with increases blooming in spring obviously had large increases
going into
fall and got vernalized, so bloomed at maturity. Too large and advanced to be
reset
by apical dominance.

The Immortality blooming a month after spring bloom is likely blooming on
increases
 that were a good size already in spring.  In your crowded clumps ther will be
many fans
of various size.

As per reply to Betty. Get your weather records and check temperatures.
While a lot of time in summer it would be too hot at nifght to get flower bud
set temperature,
 it could very well occur before onset of hot weather.

Chuck Chapman





Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 14:12:56 -0500
From: Linda Mann <lmann@lock-net.com>
Subject: [iris] Re: REB: cycle vs other

Betty's comments seem to apply here as well - a cultivar may be
increasing a lot, yet not put up any stalks at all until some unknown
(to me) combination of fertility, temperature scenario, pH, aeration of
roots?, you name it, come together to suit.

I'm always surprised to hear QUEEN DOROTHY described as such a reliable
rebloomer, summer included.  It was so unhappy here, I finally got rid
of the few scraps remaining.  But I'm pretty sure it does well for
others in this general area (places where borers thrive <g>)

Chuck, what do you make of "oncers" that produce more than one stalk on
mother rhizomes during spring bloom?  One in the terminal fan, usually
only a few days ahead of one or more on side fans?  Do you think these
are genetically cycle rebloomers where the terminal didn't get a chance
to bloom the preceeding fall/winter?  That makes some sense to me -
often the terminal stalk will have more late freeze damage than the
lateral ones.  Or are they basically "winter" bloomers?  Or is that what
late cycle bloomers are in general?  Do they bloom off and on all winter
in mild winter climates?

Betty said:
<This agrees with my observations.  I do believe the sporadic and
"whenever" could be the same with variations in strength and/or
modifiers.  Sporadics freely bloom in warmer zones, occasionally, but
rarely, blooming for me (and others) in zone 6.  The stronger
"whenevers" are much more likely to bloom here, sometimes in July and
August.  A problem I see with Immortality and a few others, here in my
garden, is a very poor stalk to fan ratio.  Rapid increase does not
always equate good rebloom, here.  Or even good spring bloom.
Apparently, there are many variables that trigger rebloom on the
"whenevers."  >

Chuck said:
<At times it takes close observation to distinguish what type of
rebloomer you have. A plant that reblooms later in season may be a
summer rebloomer genetically, but not have had size earlier in season to
trigger bloom. So you would need to have noted that it was at size (leaf
maturity) to have summer rebloom, and have it sit there and not rebloom
when opportunity presents. Opportunity based on weather factors, but you
can use plant markers such as Immortality and Queen dorothy as markers.

Also you can have Fall cyclic rebloomers put up a summer bloom, but on a
fan that should have bloomed in spring, but was just missing all factors
needed. You can tell this by checking rhizome to see if it is a mother
fan blooming or an increase. If on a mother fan, then consider this to
not be a summer rebloomer, until you get a summer bloom on an increase.

There is absolutly no doubt in my mind that Summer Rebloomers and Fall
cyclic rebloomers are different genetically. I had made numerous crosses
of Forever Blue with summer rebloomers, nary a rebloom seedling out of
hundreds of seedlings.  Many rebloomers out of FB X fall cyclic
rebloomers.  Far far past any level of significance you could apply to this.

Many instances of Fall cyclic rebloomers from cross of  Fall cyclic
rebloomers X oncers. George Sutton had written and article on this a
couple of years back.

Chuck Chapman>

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