RE: Re: REB: fall cyclic vs other

For those interested in finding what may be a real local weather observation
station, go to http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/stationlocator.html and
do a search on your zip code or any of the other criteria they offer to
search with. Heck, you may even be lucky enough to find one down the road
from you. I plugged in a couple of zip codes and the earliest date that I
saw was somewhere in 1941, so you may have a chance at look at a lot more
data than you thought <g>. However, it may be useful if there are records of
bloom in your area for various varieties.

I found 5 in my town, but the ones I looked at appear to be at Dulles
Airport, so that may be cheating a little. But, in a town that has a
population that recently just reached 3,000 souls, there were three listed.

The data is recorded in one or more data formats and you will need to read
about obtaining it.

\\Steve// 


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-iris@hort.net [o*@hort.net] On Behalf Of
irischapman@aim.com
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 2:24 PM
To: iris@hort.net
Subject: [iris] Re: REB: fall cyclic vs other 

 Spring bloom is about May28th to June 20th for TB here.  So
when we get mid Aug bloom on Queen Dorothy and Immortality. this is
about 6 weeks after spring bloom. Obiously time for these cultivars  to
produce mature plants on the spring increase.

I suspect you will need t ostart keeping min/max temperature recodings,
so you can distinguish between what type of bloom triggers you have,

I  refer to the "summer rebloomers ' as being biological "direct
blomers" . I use the term "summer Rebloomers" as that is tradition.

My article in the spring Rebloomer details my studies on floer bud set.
It could be 6 weeks after spring bloom, but the time is not the trigger
. The temperature is. Different  studies on this found time of flower
bud set to be at various times, depending on where the studies were
done. German study found it to be in July, Japanese study found it to
be in late August. Thes were field studies.

Richard Harkness at University of Mineaplois has read my study and is
using the data t orun some of his own experiments. A few weeks back he
let me know that he got flower bud set om Artic Fox with 6-9 days of
exposure of  to min night temperature of 19C. So it looks as if
temeprature, rather then time is indeed the biological trigger for
flower bud set.

So, it isn't per say the time the flower blooms as what is the
environmentsl conditions when plant reaches maturity.  Six weeks
following bloom sems to be enough time for the most vigorous of
cultivars to produce mature plants. If they get temperatures for flower
bud set, and then proceed to bloom, then they are direct bloomers, what
we call Summer rebloomers.

In your climate you may very well have the temperatures you need for
flower bud set in June, six weeks after plants have had spring  bloom.

If you don't have temerature records for your garden, than could you
find the nearest weather station to you with temerature records? Check
"weather  Underground"  for this.


http://www.wunderground.com/


Chuck Shapman

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 10:14:39 -0500
From: autmirislvr@aol.com
Subject: [iris] Re: [iris-photos] Re: REB: fall cyclic vs other

In my zone 6 garden, rebloomers typically spring bloom during the last week
in
April and/or the first week in May.  (This is not the numbering system used
in
the handbook.  I'm numbering these to keep it clear in my own mind.)  Also,
cross referencing with iris talk list since we are on iris photo)

1) On rare occasions plants put up late stalks.  I think the AIS Judges
Handbook now calls this "Secondary Stalk Rebloomers?"  I've seen some of
these
but not many.

For me, they are often confused with

2) Repeat bloomers.  Irises like Summer Radiance (mine) and Pure As Gold
(Maryott) often send up stalks about 6 weeks after regular bloom.  Both can
also bloom in the fall.  Although this one blooms in summer and late fall I
do
not think it is a "whenever" as it appears (to me) to have other conditions
at
work.  SR bloom is directly/obviously connected to rhizome maturity.  Maybe
it
contains genes for both repeat and cycle rebloom.

3) Cycle Rebloomers--have a distinct fall cycle of bloom.  Most of mine
(appear) to fall into this class-Bridge In Time, Another Bridge, Radiant
Bliss, etc..  I've never had July, August, or Sept bloom on these.  July,
August, and Sept bloom is what I've been calling "summer" bloom.

4 & 5) Whenever & Sporadic.  I lump these together because they are all
unpredictable.  They do not depend on day length to trigger bloom.  They can
bloom anytime from frost to frost.  In my area, (zone 6) they can bloom
anytime from late June to frost.  Late June is rare, and is more likely to
happen in my seedlings.  My belief is that the difference in the two is
found
in the modifiers or triggers, but maybe it is dependent on the strength of
the
rebloom gene.  Of course, the Sporadics rarely bloom here, but are such a
treat when they do.

<<Whenever rebloomers will rebloom much  earlier then a Summer rebloomer.>>

Renown, Total Recall, Cantina, Violet Miracle, and many others. (5 of mine)
have all bloomed in July here.  Some bloom from July thru fall freeze.  July
is summer for me but I've always considered them to be in the "whenever"
group.  Each year is a bit different depending on many variables.  Maybe we
should call these "early whenevers?"

When you say "summer rebloomers," you are not referring to season of bloom,
but process of flower initiation.  (something most of us do not see)  This
may
be what is confusing me.  I think I would have a hard time distinguishing
"summer" bloom from "whenever" bloom in my garden.

I've read that iris stalks are initiated approximately 6 weeks after spring
bloom.  (June here)  If this is true for all irises, wouldn't the time of
bloom be determined by the modifiers/triggers?  Normal would be spring
bloom.
Rebloom might be the presence of modifiers/triggers or simply the absent of
modifiers or damaged modifiers?   Just thinking out loud here.

New seedlings often bloom the first year after planting so they would have
to
be planted quite early to bloom the first year.  When I've been able to
plant
by the end of June, I get good first year bloom.  (spring) This falls within
the six weeks frame for most of the seedlings.


Betty Wilkerson
Bridge In Time Irises
KY Zone 6


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