Re: HYB: breeding strategies
iris@hort.net
  • Subject: Re: HYB: breeding strategies
  • From: L* M* <l*@lock-net.com>
  • Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 09:54:42 -0400
I can get really snarled up if I focus too much on the details, so Tom's general comments are really good ones to keep in mind. 

So here goes with the snarled up-ness...
starting here - "my" foundation cultivars all have their 'faults', at least for getting where I want to go.
IMM has soft substance, blooms narrow for modern taste, nearly always too short, usually makes way too much foliage for the number of stalks it puts up. And worse yet, seedlings can often be very retro - short, small narrow blooms w no substance. Most are narrower than IMM. Highly variable seed production & germination, no pollen here. But she is the very best for health & vigor here (in spite of her sometimes quirky behavior) & routinely passes that along to her kids. And blooms during hot weather here (with water, fertilizer, heavy manure mulch). White allows some color to show in seedlings, but hides a lot.
MATRIX - somewhat soft substance, fairly good width, but 'banjo' shaped falls (narrow at hafts), not as strong a grower or reliable off season bloomer as IMM; tendency for very weak growing (i.e., don't survive) kids. Usually fertile both ways, sometimes excellent width in kids, good seed production, variable germination. Color comes thru in kids.
VIOLET MIRACLE - good grower, but somewhat erratic rebloom, fairly fertile both ways, kids are all over the place. Lots of weak/dead kids. Fertile pods are loaded with seeds. Purple hides everything but variegata/neglecta/amoena.
RENOWN - prone to illness (disease, freeze damage), heavy spring bloom, hardly any off season bloom, short. Big relatively wide blooms, has a hard time setting/maturing pods here, but is fertile both ways. Usually pretty good set of seeds as pollen parent, not so much as pod. Erratic seedling survival, wide big blooms.
HARVEST OF MEMORIES - excellent healthy grower, heavy rebloom, but only cycle here. Has produced summers for others. Very pod and pollen fertile, good germination, survival all over the place. Tends to produce retro form even more than IMM. 


Keep in mind that this is a long term goal. So don't select seedlings for
further breeding based on having best traits in each seedling. As you have
noted, you can trap yourself into keeping bad traits.
So I'm starting with three rebloom lines - IMM, HOM & VM, with MATRIX and RENOWN part of the VM line. These already combine rebloom and growth. So call that line AC (using the order you use in your post, Chuck). A for (All seasons rebloom), B for Beauty, C for growth (Culture easy). ;-) So far, I've been making a <lot> of crosses of line AC with B, the beauty crosses. And making crosses of those seedlings back to B, losing A, but combining BC. [I've not been using any A's that aren't also C's. I have starting trying to get more A's that aren't C's, but then there is the problem of getting fertility from them here!] 


One for rebloom, one for beauty and one for
plant growth. Lines A, B & C. That is choose seedlings based on a primary
goal, keeping other traits secondary in choice.
Not sure how to incorporate what you are saying here, but maybe that's what I've been doing with the test crosses amongst the A's? I was just trying to see how rebloom in my growing conditions might be inherited amongst the A's. But maybe you are saying it might work better to keep working back and forth within this group? So little diversity of color/pattern & all are fairly old form.
From what Tom posted, I was thinking it might be more effective to back cross the AB's to the A parent. What do you think? 


Then after two or three more generations of? line breeding, cross your two
remaining lines. Use thes plants to go forward.


Linda Mann east TN USA zone 7

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