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-----Original Message-----
From: iris-talk@yahoogroups.com
To: iris-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 10/22/2002 7:53 AM
Subject: [iris-talk] Digest Number 2227
There are 22 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. TB: Queen dorothy
From: birdwoman424@aol.com
2. REF: Wilma Vallette
From: birdwoman424@aol.com
3. Re: TB: Queen dorothy
From: LenoraLafky@aol.com
4. Re: TB: Queen dorothy
From: LenoraLafky@aol.com
5. Re: :HYB:Pod Vs Pollen Parent
From: "Jeff and Carolyn Walters" <jcwalters@bridgernet.com>
6. Re: Queen Dorothy
From: LenoraLafky@aol.com
7. Re: TB: Queen dorothy
From: birdwoman424@aol.com
8. Re: REF: Wilma Vallette
From: abefeuerstein@aol.com
9. Re: REF: Wilma Vallette
From: birdwoman424@aol.com
10. HYB: Broken Color
From: "John Reeds" <lamegardener@msn.com>
11. RE:Hyb-Pod parent
From: irischapman@netscape.net
12. Re: TB: Queen dorothy
From: dwiris@aol.com
13. HYB: stratification/germination
From: Linda Mann <lmann@volfirst.net>
14. HYB: HIST: in general curiosity
From: "Steve Mahlberg" <s_j_mahlberg@yahoo.com>
15. Re: :HYB:Pod Vs Pollen Parent
From: "PATSY NORVELL" <patsiris@msn.com>
16. HYB: planting seeds
From: "Kelly D. Norris" <kellydn@frontiernet.net>
17. Re: HYB: Broken Color
From: "Jeff and Carolyn Walters" <jcwalters@bridgernet.com>
18. Pod vs Pollen Parents
From: dwiris@aol.com
19. Re: HYB: planting seeds
From: Linda Mann <lmann@volfirst.net>
20. Re: HYB:Pod vs Pollen Parents
From: "wmoores" <wmoores@watervalley.net>
21. Re: Re: HYB: planting seeds
From: "wmoores" <wmoores@watervalley.net>
22. RE: HYB: planting seeds
From: "Kelly D. Norris" <kellydn@frontiernet.net>
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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 09:24:01 EDT
From: birdwoman424@aol.com
Subject: TB: Queen dorothy
Would someone please give me the parentage of Queen Dorothy and Three
Seasons.
thanks for your time,
Margie Brown, NE Long Island, NY
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 09:28:17 EDT
From: birdwoman424@aol.com
Subject: REF: Wilma Vallette
Does any one know where you can purchase a copy of this book entitled:
"Iris
Culture and Hybridizing for Everyone" by Wilma Vallette? I have tried
ebay
etc.
Thank you,
Margie Brown, NE Long Island, NY
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 09:42:17 EDT
From: LenoraLafky@aol.com
Subject: Re: TB: Queen dorothy
Three Seasons: (Sutton '96) Waltz Across Texas X Orange Popsicle
What year is Queen Dorothy?
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 09:45:05 EDT
From: LenoraLafky@aol.com
Subject: Re: TB: Queen dorothy
<PRE>Queen Dorothy (E. Hall '84) Perfund Counter x Re-Treat
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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 08:01:13 -0600
From: "Jeff and Carolyn Walters" <jcwalters@bridgernet.com>
Subject: Re: :HYB:Pod Vs Pollen Parent
> From: PATSY NORVELL <patsiris@msn.com>
> I haven't seen this mentioned yet, so I thought I'd throw it in. My
friend, a commercial
> hybridizer, told me that when breeding for broken color flowers, the
broken color iris must be the pod parent. Anyone care to comment?
Pat,
That information is incorrect. I made reciprocal crosses between GNU'S
FLASH (broken color) and TENNESSEE WOMAN (plicata) several years ago and
got nearly equal proportions of broken color seedlings (1/4) crossing
both
ways.
Looking at the pedigrees of some of Brad Kasperek's broken color intros,
TIGER HONEY, GNUS FLASH, SAHARAN SUN, and SPICED TIGER all came from
plicata pod parents.
Jeff Walters in northern Utah (USDA Zone 4/5, Sunset Zone 2, AHS Zone
7)
jcwalters@bridgernet.com
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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 10:26:15 EDT
From: LenoraLafky@aol.com
Subject: Re: Queen Dorothy
OH DEAR = my spelling is getting as bad as my `synapsis'!
PERFUME COUNTER!!
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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 12:14:37 EDT
From: birdwoman424@aol.com
Subject: Re: TB: Queen dorothy
In a message dated 10/21/2002 9:46:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LenoraLafky@aol.com writes:
> Queen Dorothy (E. Hall '84) Perfume Counter x Re-Treat
i don't understand. this hyperlink states that Violet Returns is:
perfume
counter x Re-Treat. <A
HREF="http://shop.store.yahoo.com/iris/8813.html";>VIOLET RETURNS</A>
there is more info ( a few paragraphs) on "Queen Dorothy" in the
"rebloom
recorder" if you scroll down about halfway."Earl Halls rebloomer and
their
Offspring"
<A
HREF="http://216.239.51.100/search?q=cache:AKxNLsVFDu0C:web2.iadfw.net/a
0006613/rr/index1.htm+queen+dorothy+iris+rebloom+recorder&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
">Reblooming Iris Recorder - Spring 2000 - queen dorothy</A>
I bought some of the AIS checkbooks but not all of them - i have no
other
sources.
thanks for your time,
Margie Brown, NE Long Island, NY
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 13:52:43 EDT
From: abefeuerstein@aol.com
Subject: Re: REF: Wilma Vallette
Can probably provide a copy to you for a donation to the TBIS. Say,
$25.00.
By the way, it is a difficult book and I have never been able to get
through
it, although I changed from pre-Med early in my college career. All
Good
Wishes, Abe Feuerstein
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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 14:41:38 EDT
From: birdwoman424@aol.com
Subject: Re: REF: Wilma Vallette
In a message dated 10/21/2002 1:53:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
abefeuerstein@aol.com writes:
> Can probably provide a copy to you for a donation to the TBIS. Say,
$25.00.
>
> By the way, it is a difficult book and I have never been able to get
> through
> it, although I changed from pre-Med early in my college career. All
Good
> Wishes, Abe Feuerstein
>
OK, that is very kind of you. i too, like the idea of a donation. i sure
can
tell you are in the medical field - very giving people; lots of TLC.
Send me
all the details and info - I'll get a check out "stat".
Regards from a retired nurse,
Margie Brown, NE Long Island, NY
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 10
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 12:02:46 -0700
From: "John Reeds" <lamegardener@msn.com>
Subject: HYB: Broken Color
Brad Kasparek (currently the most prolific broken color guy, as far as I
know) once recommended to me BC x Plicata crosses (or vice-versa) to get
the most BC seedlings. So far, I have managed to get 4 pods from BC
crosses; none with BC pod parents. Most BC's are relatively short, and
the pod parents can be selected to give larger stalks with better
branching. With that in mind, this year's cross was LAUGH LINES x
ANACONDA LOVE. SPIRIT WORLD x GNU BLUES has a dozen 2-inch seedlings
right now.
The only BC crosses to bloom for me so far have been FILIBUSTER x GNU
and ROCK STAR x GNU. That one could have been really different, but
neither one gave any BC babies. FILIBUSTER x GNU was a disgusting (and
perplexing) failure; I discarded the entire row of seedlings after about
6 or 8 of them bloomed and every single one was a variation on the theme
"black cherry bitone with open standards". Where did THAT come from?
If it is possible that a bee played a trick on me and got to it before I
did, I did not see any similarity to anything I was growing at the time.
Usually, even in the worst crosses, at least some sign of one of the
parents can be seen in the results.
Looking at all the 1-to-3-inch seedlings from last year's crosses (they
didn't get potted until embarassingly late), one tray is a noticeably
different color from all the others; a uniformly pleasing and
healthy-looking deep green with a faint bluish-gray cast. Not my fist
choice of crosses, but BEST BET x DOUBLE DRIBBLE may at least produce
interesting breeding stock. I'd like to get that elusive blue neglecta
bred for vigor in warmer climates, with modern qualities.
Unfortunately, none of my LOUISA'S SONG crosses that took this year
included the two "blue" ones. I wasted all my LS pollen attempting the
same "potentially awesome" cross on a reluctant pod parent, and my CLOUD
BALLET pod (on LS) dropped off.
John Reeds, in not-so-sunny-this-week San Juan Capistrano, CA zone 9b
lamegardener@msn.comGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
http://explorer.msn.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 15:28:45 -0400
From: irischapman@netscape.net
Subject: RE:Hyb-Pod parent
There doesn't seem to be any difference in regards to broken colour as
to which parent is the pod parent. I probably have more BC seedlings
with the BC as the pollen parent.
There is a definate preference with streaked foliage. You can't get
streaked foliage from a pollen parent. It has to be to be the pod
parent. The variagation in foliage is genetic but carried in the
cytoplasm in the seed coat where there is no contribution from the
pollen parent.
There is no difference in regards to colour or type of offspring from
which parent is the pod parent. There does seem to be some differences
in terms of plant characteristics. That is plant vigour, branching,
strength of stalk etc.
--
Chuck Chapman, Guelph, Ontario, Canada. Zone 4/5
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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 16:24:04 EDT
From: dwiris@aol.com
Subject: Re: TB: Queen dorothy
In a message dated 10/21/02 9:25:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
birdwoman424@aol.com writes:
> Would someone please give me the parentage of Queen Dorothy and Three
> Seasons.
>
THREE SEASONS (George Sutton 1997)
Dorothy Willott in Northern Ohio
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:43:27 -0400
From: Linda Mann <lmann@volfirst.net>
Subject: HYB: stratification/germination
The last of the fresh seeds are now in the ground (shelled fresh,
seedcoats nicked, wrapped in wet towels and refrigerated for 3 months).
Only two out of more than 250 seeds in this batch were starting to
germinate - tiny little sprout sticking out of the pointed end of the
seed.
A few more seeds have germinated in the last batch (chilled for 2
months), for a total of 7 as of today.
So far, 2 have germinated from the seeds planted outdoors in coarse sand
immediately after shelling.
Weather looks ideal for seeds to germinate outdoors for the coming week
- highs in the low 70s, lows in the 50s. Still no frost predicted, tho
there was a slight frost the other morning. Not enough to hurt any
plants, but left ice on some of the car windows (only the west facing
glass). Usually, there's been at least one hard, killing freeze by now.
--
Linda Mann east Tennessee USA zone 7/8
Tennessee Whooping Crane Walkathon:
<http://www.whoopingcranesovertn.org>
American Iris Society web site <http://www.irises.org>
iris-talk/Mallorn archives: <http://www.hort.net/lists/iris-talk/>
iris-photos/Mallorn archives: <http://www.hort.net/lists/iris-photos/>
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Message: 14
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 01:18:12 -0000
From: "Steve Mahlberg" <s_j_mahlberg@yahoo.com>
Subject: HYB: HIST: in general curiosity
I was wondering if anyone has tried to recreate any of the "old time"
crosses that brought us any of the historics? Just to see if they
ended up with something or anything like the hybridizers "back then"
did?
thanks,
steve mahlberg - zone 4b - duluth,mn
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Message: 15
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 20:35:25 -0500
From: "PATSY NORVELL" <patsiris@msn.com>
Subject: Re: :HYB:Pod Vs Pollen Parent
Walter, the way I learned this lesson was with Hooker. I proudly
showed him all the seed pods I had with Ziggy as the pollen parent,
because Ziggy had plenty of pollen, but the others had none. His
comment was that I had done the whole thing backwards. So I guess in a
couple of years, we'll see what I get.
Pat in Dallas
----- Original Message -----
From: wmoores
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 11:19 PM
To: iris-talk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [iris-talk]:HYB:Pod Vs Pollen Parent
On 20 Oct 2002 at 20:34, PATSY NORVELL wrote:
> I haven't seen this mentioned yet, so I thought I'd throw it in.
> My friend, a commercial hybridizer, told me that when breeding for
> broken color flowers, the broken color iris must be the pod parent.
> Anyone care to comment?
> Pat in Dallas
Pat, you'll probably get more broken color seedlings that way, and
then, on the other hand, you can get none! I have used MARIA TORMENA
both ways and get very few broken color blooms from her. Some crosses
have produced none, even when both parents were broken color. JILTED
did likewise. I have been told that using a plicata father on a
broken color mother will yield a high percentage of broken color
children - not proven in my patch.
ZIGGY comes from Autumn Bugler x Faux Pas, neither being broken color.
Z has given broken color when crossed to broken color and has yielded
much improved form, coming from FAUX PAS, I'm sure.
CRIMSON TIGER and INFERNAL FIRE seem to represent another departure
in broken color genes, IF in particular. Some of the blooms, to me,
don't appear to be the usual broken color pattern of stripes and
splashes. Sometimes the color is 'speckled and daubed'. Whatever,
the parentage shows no broken color. These two are from reciprocal
crosses. It might be interesting to cross these with QUANDARY and
PUCCINI. Some IF children show broken color stalks and spathes.
Walter Moores
Enid Lake, MS USA 7/8 (The ground is broken and wet, and the irises
are in the pots yet!)
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Message: 16
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:52:41 -0600
From: "Kelly D. Norris" <kellydn@frontiernet.net>
Subject: HYB: planting seeds
Finally......I got my crosses planted. I had only one of my own hand
pollinated crosses that set seed and 3 bee pods. They were:
A025251-1: UNKNOWN HISTORIC X VALOR, This was an historic cross that I
was just experimenting with so will see what conglomerate turns up!
Bee Pods
A02B1: BLUE RHYTHM X UNKNOWN
A02B2: HISTORIC PURPLE/WHITE PLICATA X UNKNOWN
A02B3: UNKNOWN PARENTAGE
The last 2 were pods collected from other gardens in which the owner was
going to discard them. I insisted on taking them to give myself some
practice in seed germination. I planted the seeds in a mixture of
Miracle-Gro potting soil and sand. The whole mixture was very light and
fluffy. I planted the seeds about ¾" deep (was this deep enough?). I
am going to let them sit outside for 8-10 weeks and then bring indoors
to 60 deg temperatures in the basement under grow lights. I hope for
germination and to get a head start on seedling growth before spring.
I have collected many resources off the internet written by the
"experts" and sort of combined it into something I thought would work.
Snow is predicted for tomorrow and I am planning to pile it on the pots
for moisture. Crossing my fingers for luck!
Botanically,
Kelly D. Norris
Master Gardener/Freelance Writer
Bedford, Iowa
Zone 4b/5a
"I fought the lawn and the lawn won!"
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 17
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:28:55 -0600
From: "Jeff and Carolyn Walters" <jcwalters@bridgernet.com>
Subject: Re: HYB: Broken Color
> From: John Reeds <lamegardener@msn.com>
Most BC's are relatively short, and the pod parents can be selected to
give
larger stalks with better branching.
BC's come in various heights, as do irises of other colors. I would not
say
that on the whole the ones I have grown have shorter stalks as a rule.
Here
are the registration heights and maximum heights in my garden (in
inches)
for TB BC's:
BRINDLED BEAUTY 34/41; ELAINEALOPE 34/40; GNU BLUES 36/41; GNUS FLASH
40/49; MILLENNIUM FALCON 38/40; NIGERIAN RASPBERRY 36/35; SPICED TIGER
31/30; TIGER HONEY 38/31.
FILIBUSTER x GNU was a disgusting (and perplexing) failure; I discarded
the
entire row of seedlings after about 6 or 8 of them bloomed and every
single
one was a variation on the theme "black cherry bitone with open
standards".
I can empathize with the open standards part. I have never yet had a
self
or near self seedling bloom from a cross involving BC's - only plicatas,
BC's, and bicolors.
Jeff Walters in northern Utah (USDA Zone 4/5, Sunset Zone 2, AHS Zone
7)
jcwalters@bridgernet.com
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Message: 18
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 02:34:15 EDT
From: dwiris@aol.com
Subject: Pod vs Pollen Parents
This thread has me thinking about our reblooming standard dwarfs.
Hardly
anything reblooms for us, so we were not looking for reblooming
seedlings.
However, three seedlings from a cross of NACHOS X PILGRIMS' CHOICE
produced
three that have been reported to rebloom. The only tie to reblooming
ancestors seems to be that both parents have GINGERBREAD MAN three
generations back. GINGERBREAD MAN never rebloomed for us, but has
frequently
been reported across the country.
The three reblooming seedlings were named and introduced as HARLEM
NOCTURNE,
PICASSO PRINT and SILK AND VELVET. SILK AND VELVET pollen was used on
our
ICE AND INDIGO to produce our 2002 introduction SHOUT. SHOUT has turned
out
to be our most reliable rebloomer (along with Earl Hall's VIOLET
RETURNS).
The only possible rebloomer in the pod parent's background seems to be
LACED
LEMONADE (three generations back) which was reported only in Delaware as
a
rebloomer.
It is a mystery how these rebloomer came into being.
Dorothy Willott in Northern Ohio, Zones 5/6
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 19
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 06:33:49 -0400
From: Linda Mann <lmann@volfirst.net>
Subject: Re: HYB: planting seeds
<I planted the seeds about ¾" deep (was this deep enough?). >
I hope we get several different replies to your question. I don't know
the answer. I usually poke mine into the potting medium to at least as
deep as the seed is big. That's not as deep as you have planted yours -
closer to 1/4 inch maybe.
--
Linda Mann east Tennessee USA zone 7/8
Tennessee Whooping Crane Walkathon:
<http://www.whoopingcranesovertn.org>
American Iris Society web site <http://www.irises.org>
iris-talk/Mallorn archives: <http://www.hort.net/lists/iris-talk/>
iris-photos/Mallorn archives: <http://www.hort.net/lists/iris-photos/>
________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 20
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 06:04:48 -0500
From: "wmoores" <wmoores@watervalley.net>
Subject: Re: HYB:Pod vs Pollen Parents
>
> It is a mystery how these rebloomer came into being.
>
> Dorothy Willott in Northern Ohio, Zones 5/6
>
The gene pool is so vast and there are so many recessives that
conjecture
on what the pod vs. pollen parent will yield hardly results in any
specific
generalities. The wide crosses never cease to amaze, nor does a long
line of
seedlings. Just when you think you have a theory, your next generation
of
seedlings proves you wrong, or the next hybridizer you talk to has been
there, done
that, and tossed the T-shirt.
Walter Moores
Enid Lake, MS USA 7/8
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Message: 21
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 06:12:48 -0500
From: "wmoores" <wmoores@watervalley.net>
Subject: Re: Re: HYB: planting seeds
On 22 Oct 2002 at 6:33, Linda Mann wrote:
> <I planted the seeds about ¾" deep (was this deep enough?). >
>
> I hope we get several different replies to your question. I don't
> know the answer. I usually poke mine into the potting medium to at
> least as deep as the seed is big. That's not as deep as you have
> planted yours - closer to 1/4 inch maybe.
I constantly have to poke mine farther down into the pot. With our
heavy
winter rains, there are lots of floaters. I would prefer a heavier soil
mix than
what Kelly has prepared. This would help keep some of the floaters put.
A good
inch of sand on top of each pot helps stop floaters, too.
Walter Moores
Enid Lake, MS 7/8 USA
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Message: 22
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 05:51:14 -0600
From: "Kelly D. Norris" <kellydn@frontiernet.net>
Subject: RE: HYB: planting seeds
Linda....I went out and measured a pot and the deepest I had mine was ½
inch. I guess I can't judge depth very well!
Walter....That is a good point about the "floaters". I figured that a
lighter mixture would aid in easier seed germination. I might consider
putting that 1" of sand on if things get "wet" like they sometimes can.
Thanks everyone for the helpful advice!
Botanically,
Kelly D. Norris
Master Gardener/Freelance Writer
Bedford, Iowa
Zone 4b/5a
Remember amateurs built the ark -
professionals built the Titanic.......
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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