Re: Re:HYB: Breeding strategies
iris@hort.net
  • Subject: Re: Re:HYB: Breeding strategies
  • From: B* W* <a*@aol.com>
  • Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 08:33:36 -0400 (EDT)
Linda, Tom's article gives me hope.
My top criteria are 1) combining rebloom genes and 2) plant strength and growth. As we've all agreed, a rebloomer needs a strong plant to support it. 

Currently, I make 4 types of crosses in the TB rebloom program.
1) Straight rebloom crosses. Ex: 'Star Gate' x 'Over and Over' (would this be a good one to line breed? One line for selfs and another for plicata?) Violet Miracle is on both sides of this cross, not a full line breed but still a bit of inbreeding. 2) Stage one seedling x strong rebloomer. Ex: (Lunar Whitewash x Romantic Evening) x Over and Over) 3) Combining rebloom with non-rebloom/warm climate rebloom. Ex: (Lunar Whitewash x Romantic Evening) This type peaked in 2006 but I'm still doing a few each year. 4) Occasionally, I just go crazy and cross a couple of marginal things, usually irises or seedlings that contain some rebloom. Ex: (Breaking News X Cloud Berry) Pretty faces.
I've only made one line cross (so far) and I was very pleased with the results. I can see the potential for more. Based on research, I've refrained from wasting space on selfing.
Yes, as a result of gene combining, I have kept and used things that do not impress me! You're famliar with the "kitchen sink" kids? And some of their children. 


Betty Wilkerson
Zone 6 KY
autmirislvr@aol.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Linda Mann <lmann@lock-net.com>
To: iris <iris@hort.net>
Sent: Wed, Oct 26, 2011 3:06 pm
Subject: [iris] Re:HYB: Breeding strategies


Tom, does line breeding (as you intend its meaning in your article)
using seedlings only descended from one initial cross? Or does it also
include additions of outcrosses to the mix now and then? You say
"closely related" - not sure how close you mean.

I've looked at pedigrees a lot, but without knowing exactly what the
breeder's goal has been, or what the intermediate seedlings had or
didn't have along the way, I don't have a good understanding of how to
best implement line-breeding to reach my goals. But one of my selection
rules has been that if a seedling isn't an improvement of some sort
(either trait(s) I'm specifically breeding for or just something I like
more than in the parents), I haven't used it for breeding. Sometimes
will keep it around just because I haven't gotten around to throwing it
away, sometimes just in case it eventually decides to rebloom.
In your article, I notice you say that in line breeding, the above might 
not always be a good selection criterion:
In fact, it's not unusual for the first generation seedlings to be 
inferior
to the parents, apparently lacking their most impressive qualities. This is 
where line breeding is useful.

I'm just getting started on serious attempts to breed rebloomers, now
that a decade+ of breeding oncers has produced a lot of reliable
bloomers here in a range of colors and some patterns. My goal is to
have 'summer' rebloomers in my growing conditions, which means there has 
to be a combination of the (probably) recessive 'summer' rebloom genes
with all the other growth habits necessary to rebloom, including a
relatively high temperature threshold. Without losing all the other
bloom traits in subsequent generations.

Lloyd Zurbrigg (plus Earl Hall intros by him) and G.P. Brown's
rebloomers have been the most reliable 'summer' rebloom performers I've
tried here so far. Plus super performer BELVI QUEEN. So far, 'summer'
rebloomers from other hybridizers tend to perform more as fall cycle
rebloomers (summers too hot for them?)

I haven't made many trial crosses yet, but have made a few crosses just
to try to understand how 'summer' rebloom might be inherited/expressed
in my growing conditions. Very unsatisfying so far! I had hoped to at
least produce some seedlings to choose among that would be well adapted
to my growing conditions, reliably summer bloom and more reliably
fertile both ways than the parents.

One example: of maybe a dozen surviving seedlings from IMMORTALITY X
MATRIX (both summers here, IMM much more reliably so), only one seedling is a rebloomer and so far, it's been a cycle rebloomer (which Chuck says 
is a dominant trait).

Are these two parents closely related enough for this to be a line
breeding cross? The rebloom seedling is worse than both parents re:
form, but not much worse. What to do - breed to something carrying IMM
genes with better form (IMM grandkids) but no rebloom or breed to
something with rebloom but equally old form? Or not use it at all
(which is what I would have thought before reading your article)

IMMORTALITY = I Do X English Cottage
MATRIX = Violet Miracle X Brother Carl
BROTHER CARL = Sister Helen X I Do
I DO = Grand Baroque X Amy
VIOLET MIRACLE = (Sign of Leo x (Tuxedo x Purple Duet)) X Violet Classic
ENGLISH COTTAGE = 68-92-Wide: ((Crinkled Ivory x Autumn Sensation) x
Grand Baroque) X Cross Stitch

Another example (posted earlier): about 21 surviving seedlings from
HARVEST OF MEMORIES X RENOWN. HoM is an early fall cycle bloomer here,
I think reported to summer bloom elsewhere, but if it does summer bloom, 
haven't heard of it being reliable in various climates. RENOWN rarely
reblooms here, but has summer bloomed for me once. 5 seedlings from the
cross have rebloomed, only one might be a summer, the others cycle.
None has form any better than parents (still waiting for the last one to 
open. but nothing exciting noted during spring bloom).
Same questions for this cross as the previous one.

HoM = (Magic Memories x Key Lime) X Corn Harvest
RENOWN = Matrix X Suky
KEY LIME = 68-92-Wide: ((Crinkled Ivory x Autumn Sensation) x Grand
Baroque) X 68-105-Cream: (((58-49-PA x Flame Kiss) x Java Dove) x Grand
Baroque).
SUKY = Violet Miracle X Victoria Falls

I addressed this question to Tom, because of the article on Breeding
Strategies, but also would enjoy hearing other's thoughts on line-breeding. 

Thanks.

Linda Mann east TN USA zone 7

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