iris@hort.net
- Subject: Re: iris DIGEST V1 #327
- From: B* C* <c*@rewrite.hort.net>
- Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2014 20:27:16 -0400
Are there any of you separating your iris and have any extra ones you would like to give away. I would be glad to pay the shipping and handling. Thanks very much. Brenda Collett Sent from my iPhone On Oct 4, 2014, at 8:49 AM, iris-owner@hort.net (iris DIGEST) wrote: > > iris DIGEST Saturday, October 4 2014 Volume 01 : Number 327 > > > > In this issue: > > Re: [iris] REB: rebloom > [iris] RIS checklist - cumulative yrs? > Re: [iris] REB: rebloom > Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer > Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer > Re: [iris] REB: rebloom > Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer > [iris] Please TRIM the message histories, especially when digest!! > Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer > Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer > [iris] REB: rebloom > Re: [iris] RIS checklist - cumulative yrs? > Re: [iris] RIS checklist - cumulative yrs? > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2014 18:17:05 -0400 > From: Chuck Chapman <db4f61431@rewrite.hort.net> > Subject: Re: [iris] REB: rebloom > > In this pedigree, both Violet Music and Autumn Bugler are reliable > zone 4 rebloomers. No need for anything else to get rebloom.. > > Victoria Falls is consistent in rebloom in a number of areas. I have > gotten good consistent fall cyclic rebloomers out of it > > > Chuck Chapman > > - -----Original Message----- > From: Linda Mann <101l@rewrite.hort.net> > To: iris <iris@hort.net> > Sent: Fri, Oct 3, 2014 4:21 pm > Subject: [iris] REB: rebloom > > One strong "summer" bloomer here is > > OXMOOR HILLS (James Ennenga, R. 2003) Sdlg. E-90-31-1. TB, 30" (76 > cm), > E & RE > S. violet blue (RHS 90B); Violet Music X E-85-11-1: (Autumn Bugler > x Sea Wolf). Ennenga 2004. > > In town, 5 miles from me, on decent soil it puts up stalks all summer > when watered and fertilized. It was bred and selected in Knoxville, > TN, > about 50 miles from me, on top of a hill in clay subsoil. > > Violet Music is Violet Miracle X Victoria Falls. Violet Music is a > reliable rebloomer. Victoria Falls is a sporadic rebloomer (never has > rebloomed here & I've had it for >20 yrs) > > I don't grow Autumn Bugler, don't know anything about it, other than > that it's listed as a rebloomer. > > Sea Wolf is not a rebloomer, Navy Strut X Mystique, both sporadic > rebloomers somewhere, presumably "coastal zone 8" > > So here's one example of a lot of coastal zone 8 (or possibly zone 7) > sporadic rebloomers combing in one pedigree to make a strong rebloomer > in this area. Would it bloom so continuously farther north? I don't > know. > > Linda Mann east TN zone 7b USA > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2014 21:23:51 -0400 > From: Phloid <4390a9e81@rewrite.hort.net> > Subject: [iris] RIS checklist - cumulative yrs? > > I'm told the RIS checklist is cumulative across years. Does anyone know > how many years of accumulation the 2012 checklist would represent? Thanks > > Shaub Dunkley > http://www.avast.com > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2014 20:50:22 -0400 > From: Phloid <4390a9e81@rewrite.hort.net> > Subject: Re: [iris] REB: rebloom > > Funny, I never noticed the reliability comments in the Description > section. I guess I am just a numbers guy. Here is what caught my eye > (RIS 2012 checklist): > > States rebloom reported: AR, AZ, CA, GA, ID, KY, MA, MD, MI, MO, MT, NE, > NM, NY, OK, OR, SC, TX, VA, WA, WV, Australia, Netherlands, Switzerland > USDA Zones: 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 > > Nice to have more than magic keywords to ponder. So I am not surprised > to see it bloom in the fall in my z6b garden in 2013 and 2014 off a 2012 > planting. Now if we could get the "one in twenty yrs in z4" kinda stuff > folded in we'd be cooking with gas. > > Shaub Dunkley Z6b NC > > On 10/3/2014 7:08 PM, Linda Mann wrote: >> Violet Music is an unreliable late cycle rebloomer here, not an all >> summer long rebloomer like offspring Oxmoor Hills. Maybe summers are >> too hot for VM to bloom earlier here. >> >> I'm surprised to hear you say that about Victoria Falls. I'd always >> heard that it was sporadic everywhere. >> >> The Rebloom Checklist says "reblooms, but not reliable in any part of >> the country". Which is probably where I got the idea that it doesn't >> rebloom consistently anywhere. >> >> Please share any consistent rebloom geographic info for VF with Robin >> Shadlow, so she can alter that statement. thanks. >> >> On 10/3/2014 6:17 PM, Chuck Chapman wrote: >>> Victoria Falls is consistent in rebloom in a number of areas. >> >> Linda Mann >> > http://www.avast.com > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2014 15:10:31 -0400 > From: Linda Mann <101l@rewrite.hort.net> > Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer > > In other words, if it won't rebloom farther north than zone 8, it's useless. > > Interesting perspective, especially as the whole planet warms. > > On 10/3/2014 1:54 PM, Chuck Chapman wrote: >> warm climate California rebloomers, that rebloom only in areas with >> long growing seasons......These genes are useless in enabling fall cyclic rebloom genes, summer > rebloom genes or the Whenever bloom genes.. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2014 15:23:52 -0400 > From: Linda Mann <101l@rewrite.hort.net> > Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer > > Geneva, unfortunately, information on bloom habits of all cultivars > known to rebloom isn't available. The cumulative checklist simply lists > all cultivars reported to have managed to rebloom and which zones and > states/countries/provinces reported it. > > Chuck has postulated several types of rebloom genes based on his own > data and observations of others, but only for those genes that affect > bloom triggers. > > There are other genes involved related to growth rate, root shoot ratio, > allocation of energy to roots, shoots and bloom production as well as to > disease resistance (mechanisms of repair and resistance), freeze > tolerance and probably a bunch of other things that have to be part of > the rebloom "package" that each iris breeder automatically selects for > because they are what help make it possible for any plant to rebloom in > their growing conditions. > > On 10/3/2014 2:16 PM, Geneva Coats wrote: >> Would that sort of information be listed in the book that they >> offer for sale? > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2014 19:08:57 -0400 > From: Linda Mann <101l@rewrite.hort.net> > Subject: Re: [iris] REB: rebloom > > Violet Music is an unreliable late cycle rebloomer here, not an all > summer long rebloomer like offspring Oxmoor Hills. Maybe summers are > too hot for VM to bloom earlier here. > > I'm surprised to hear you say that about Victoria Falls. I'd always > heard that it was sporadic everywhere. > > The Rebloom Checklist says "reblooms, but not reliable in any part of > the country". Which is probably where I got the idea that it doesn't > rebloom consistently anywhere. > > Please share any consistent rebloom geographic info for VF with Robin > Shadlow, so she can alter that statement. thanks. > > On 10/3/2014 6:17 PM, Chuck Chapman wrote: >> Victoria Falls is consistent in rebloom in a number of areas. > > Linda Mann > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2014 15:51:29 -0600 > From: Betty Gunther <63e82e8b1@rewrite.hort.net> > Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer > > I _have_ been following this argument and have learned a lot. I > have had a tiny bit of rebloom here in Northern New Mexico where any > rebloom is unusual. It has helped me understand all the different > thing rebloomer jcan mean. I had been somewhat mystifyied about the > difference among Double Your Fun, Immortality, and Plum Wine. They all > rebloomed a second ( and sometimes third and fourth) time. Now I see > that there are different genes involved and different types of rebloom. > It doesn't bother me that you all are not in agreement. I am > learning a lot anyway. Who can tell when the break thru will come? My > experience is that nature is full of surprises! > Keep on crossing and keep on discussing. I am enjoying it. > Betty G. in New Mexico > On 10/3/2014 12:32 PM, Chuck Chapman wrote: >> The term coastal rebloomers is not a term I use , but was responding >> to a post using that term. >> >> Basically, if an iris is reported as reblooming in zone 8 and 9 but >> not regularly in cooler climates, it would be a facilitative >> vernalization rebloomer, depending on a long growing season to rebloom. >> >> Good fall cyclic include Northward Ho, Pink Attraction , English >> Cottage, Lilac Stitchery, Dorcus Lives Again and Red Revival , for >> examples. Basically you are looking at ones that perform in Zones >> 4-7, after heat of summer has past. some of these ones such as >> Immortality and Queen Dorothy are summer rebloomers. >> >> This way of looking at genetics of rebloomers is my theory, based on >> much time looming at all this, studying bloom trigger scientific >> information, and crosses made. You won't find much on this, although >> back issue s of Reblooming Recorder has some of my articles. >> >> Chuck Chapman >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Geneva Coats <4e56e7df1@rewrite.hort.net> >> To: iris <iris@hort.net> >> Sent: Fri, Oct 3, 2014 2:21 pm >> Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer >> >> Chuck, I am new to all this and since I live in California, we do have >> a long >> blooming season. However, I live in the inland valley where it freezes at >> night for about two months every year, and the summers can approach 110 >> degrees. I do not have a "coastal" climate here, nor do most people in >> California. Granted, we are not in a "Deep freeze" area like the >> midwest or >> east coast, but there are many plants that can be grown in a true coastal >> climate that can't survive here in the inland valley where I live. I >> suspect >> that the TN-KY area may have a climate somewhere in between the two >> extremes >> (mu husband is from western Kentucky) >> ? >> ? >> I would be interested in knowing >> some examples of plants that are "cyclic" rebloomers as opposed to >> "facilitative vernalization" rebloomers. Do you have specific >> cultivars that >> you have found good to work with? >> ? >> I just recently joined the Reblooming >> Iris Society. Would that sort of information be listed in the book >> that they >> offer for sale? >> ? >> Thanks! Geneva >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Chuck Chapman <db4f61431@rewrite.hort.net> >> To: iris >> <iris@hort.net> >> Sent: Fri, Oct 3, 2014 10:56 am >> Subject: Re: [iris] >> Re: classifying as a Rebloomer >> >> >> >> >> Coastal rebloomer is being used to >> refer to the warm climate >> California rebloomers, that rebloom only in >> areas with long growing >> seasons. I call them "Facilitative vernalization" >> bloomers. Meaning >> that they bloom better when they have a cold period, but >> when they >> don't, they will bloom after about 5 months of growth after bud >> set. >> So if you don't get this long growing season, they don't >> "rebloom". >> These genes are useless in enabling fall cyclic rebloom genes, >> summer >> rebloom genes or the Whenever bloom genes.. >> >> Chuck Chapman >> -----Original Message----- >> From: J. Griffin Crump >> <70cb46c31@rewrite.hort.net> >> To: iris <iris@hort.net> >> Sent: >> Fri, Oct 3, 2014 1:21 pm >> Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer >> Chuck -- I haven't been following this discussion closely. What do >> you >> mean by a "coastal" rebloomer? -- Griff >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Chuck Chapman >> Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 9:57 AM >> To: >> iris@hort.net >> Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer >> >> Any >> examples of rebloomers that can be attributed to crosses with >> coastal or >> occasional rebloomers? >> >> Based on what I know of genetics of rebloomers, I >> can't see any >> benefits. And possible deficits from bring in tender coastal >> genes. >> >> Rare events based on misfiring of bloom genes in response to >> rare >> growing conditions will not add anything beneficial to gene pool >> information. It will not give any information to aid breeding. >> >> You need >> basic rebloom genes plus good secondary characteristics, which >> include >> plant hardiness in many climates. Good performance in coastal >> areas doesn't >> translate into anything useful for harder climates.. >> >> >> Chuck Chapman >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Betty Wilkerson >> <101n@rewrite.hort.net> >> To: iris <iris@hort.net> >> Sent: Fri, >> Oct 3, 2014 9:38 am >> Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer >> Maybe it depends on the goal? >> >> >> If your goal is to collect irises that >> will >> have a GOOD chance of reblooming in your yard, then it would be >> advisable to >> collect those that rebloom, on a regular basis, in YOUR area. >> Learn >> from >> local gardeners. If none exist, you can learn by careful use of >> the >> checklist. >> If your goal is to improve or diversify the rebloom class, >> through >> breeding, >> perhaps you might want to venture a bit beyond the >> default rebloomers. >> ?? An >> occasional outcross to coastal rebloomers of >> stellar growth habits >> might be of >> benefit. I work specifically with tall >> bearded irises and I'm a bit >> too old >> to begin with inter class crosses >> etc. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> <<Once in 20, of no >> value, >> except to be >> used as misleading information from the "Spring >> Gardens " of the >> world. >> And you can bet that they will use it.>> >> >> >> >> >> >> Betty >> Wilkerson >> Zone 6 KY >> autmirislvr@aol.com >> >> >> >> >> -----Original >> Message----- >> From: Chuck Chapman >> <db4f61431@rewrite.hort.net> >> To: >> iris <iris@hort.net> >> Sent: Thu, Oct 2, 2014 >> 8:16 pm >> Subject: Re: >> [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer >> >> >> For those people >> who have >> iris that rebloom regularly for them, they >> report. And then >> information >> is properly recorded. And expectations >> of various rebloom >> in various >> zones can be relied on. Once in 20 >> years in zone 4 is not >> information >> that can be counted on. >> >> When you check the "rebloom" iris >> offered by >> Spring Garden and ilk, >> you find that they have used rebloom >> information >> from list , sometime >> along the process. When checking out some of >> their >> listing I found >> information such as one rebloomer sold in Canada was >> recorded as a one >> time event, of rebloom in Australia. No other rebloom >> reported. This >> iris (along with many other on their list) will never >> rebloom >> in >> Canada. Some don't even make it through first year. Many >> people by >> these collections, both in Canada and USA. When they don't have >> rebloom >> they then can give up on rebloomers. Several such comments >> on >> "Iris >> lovers" recently are very likely from this sort of practice. >> >> So >> a "once off" >> rebloom from one iris in one location, when reported >> as a >> reblooming iris >> can have unwanted effects. Even if it is once >> every >> three years , it gives >> useful information. Once in 20, of no >> value, >> except to be used as misleading >> information from the "Spring >> Gardens " of >> the world. And you can bet that >> they will use it. >> >> Chuck Chapman >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Betty >> Wilkerson >> <101n@rewrite.hort.net> >> To: iris <iris@hort.net> >> Sent: Thu, >> Oct 2, >> 2014 4:46 pm >> Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer >> May be a >> matter of neuances, but . . . just because something doesn't >> rebloom >> in your >> yard doesn't mean they aren't rebloomers. My opinion. >> 'Forever >> Blue' >> doesn't rebloom here, but I don't question that it is a >> rebloomer >> . . . >> for >> you and others. >> >> >> >> <<A once off event >> of rebloom is exciting, and >> worth >> noting , but >> doesn't make that plant a >> rebloomer for me. I have over >> the >> years >> have had a good number of >> oncers put up an out of season or even >> twice >> a year bloom. these things >> can and do happen. <<<< >> >> >> Doesn't make it a >> rebloomer as >> far as I'm concerned.>> >> >> >> 'Victoria Falls' did fall bloom for me >> in Alvaton, in the 90's. It grew over 40 inches tall --------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off this list, send email to majordomo@hort.net with the message text UNSUBSCRIBE IRIS
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