Re: email list suggestion - organic or not .....

Mary Manson wrote:
> 
> >> Since their backer is a University, they are not averse to any and all
> kinds
> >> of 'cides - herbicide, pesticide, fungicide - suicide ..... well, slow
> >> suicide ..... sorry about that, it's a rant ..... ;- ( .....
> >> Toni
> >Well I am totally bewildered. Toni and I seem to be talking about two
> >different lists!.  In fact though the University hosts the list it does not
> >moderate it.
> >Moira
> >Tony & Moira
> 
> Hi, Moira  (and Tony)  Thanks for your private support for me in times past.
> And we are not at loggerheads now.
> 
> The Organic Gardening List is one and the same - yours and mine.
> 
> But my memories of being a Seattle Master Gardener, with ties to the
> Extension Service from Washington State University  (the Land Grant
> College who backs the OGL)  as different from the University of
> Washington,  (the Business college)  are filled with remonstrations :
> 
> Do NOT advise anybody to use  "old wives remedies",  untested by
> scientists, since the University is our sponsor and sticks-to-the-facts,
> ma'am.
> 
> Do advise everybody to  READ THE LABELS on any/every product
> and stick-to-the-instructions.
> 
> Do advise everybody to IDENTIFY the REAL problem - new gardeners
> (and many not-so-new)  sometimes have trouble identifying a culture,
> environment, or climate problem that has deteriorated a plant to where it
> is sick and attracts insects and now think that a 'cide is the ONLY answer.
> 
> Do learn to fertilize  (sparingly and when necessary)  and water according
> to plant needs - healthy plants, with your help, can fight off most damage
> and continue to produce.
> 
> And many more - but you get the idea.  It's all good advice.  Except.
> Except that part of the University's business is producing 'cides and
> continuing their wide-spread use - and this carries over to the advice
> that is eventually promoted on the Organic Gardening List, many of
> whom  *are*were*   Extension-trained Master Gardeners.

Hi Toni
It seems to me you are making a case of guilt by association, and
certainly since I have belonged to this list I have never seen evidence
of any such coercion. Indeed we have very few university people among
our correspondents. The only regular contributer I can think of offhand
is Joel Gruver and he is mainly concerned with techniques for using
no-till in large garden and farm situations. He has never to my
recollection so much as mentioned a 'cide. I suppose we may also have
some members who have undertaken Master Gardener courses, but I cannot
ever recollect any of them pushing the particular barrow you describe,
which is certainly a distortion as far as organic practitioners are
concerned.

Almost all the other members seem to be home gardeners who belong to the
list because they value the health of both the environment and their
families and are striving to garden in ways which will help to sustain
rather than destroying the natural world. Some of us are farther down
this road than others, but all seem willing to learn and to correct
inappropriate ideas. I feel this is far more valuable than belonging to
some list where everyone is already perfect in their approach and there
is no chance either to learn or to teach.
> 
> My first  "rub".  Organic gardening implies, to me, non-synthetic, > non-man-made  "fertilizers"  and manual pest controls.

Mine too. One of the things which I have learnt in the last few years is
that even so-called organic remedies are by no means all benign or even
closely focused. Pyrethrum is the one which instantly springs to mind. A
great leap forward for me is that I have found is that by virtually
ceasing to spray anything round the garden bar compost tea and seaweed
extract  the ecosystem has largely balanced itself up and the pest
problem is now quite insignificant. 
> 
> The instructors who train Master Gardeners - and wonderfully
> educated they are ! - all are experts in their various specialties.
> All University trained and they pass on their knowledge.
> 
> And there's my second  "rub".  They know all about the 'cides and
> how  "safe"  they are.  But history is proving that some/much of what
> education/research has  "tested and proved safe"  is not.  NOT in the
> long run.  DDT.  Dioxin.  Dieldrin.  Lindane.  Etc.
> 
> What is worse, the insects are adapting - because of insect numbers
> and anatomy and their short life spans - to the 'cides.  Are humans ?
> who knows which human survivors are surviving the  "safe, tested"
> University products being applied to our foods and adapting to them,
> and which are still operating on inherited good genes ?
> 
> And now come the gene-splitters ..... but that's another  "rub" .....

My impression (gained from several anecdotes) of your Master Gardeners
(a breed we do not have in our country) is that on the whole thay are
wedded to chemical methods and are consequently doing more harm than
good in the community and certainly nothing for the organic cause. This
makes their name particularly unfortunate, as obviously the general
public are mislead into thinking they must have the best and most
up-to-date information on garden management.

Moira
-- 
Tony & Moira Ryan <theryans@xtra.co.nz>
Wainuiomata, New Zealand. (on the "Ring of Fire" in the SW Pacific).
Lat. 41:16S Long. 174:58E. Climate: Mediterranean/Temperate
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