Re: Companion Plants for Roses

I know that the latest theory does not favor amending soil in the planting
holes, but this theory does not accord with my experience.  I have tried
many native plants on my north-facing slope which is in full sun at high
summer, full sodden shade in winter.  If I try to plop a gallon plant, which
has been grown in a mix of sand and shavings, into a hole in my exceedingly
tight black adobe, the hole tends to fill with  water and the discouraged,
pampered roots are not able to make their way into the soil.  If I dig a
wide hole, amend the soil with gypsum and the light mix I shake off the
roots of the plants, they can often make it.  This is the only way I have
been able to establish Salvia 'Winifred Gilman', for example.  The plants
are not totally inappropriate for the site; they just need a little help at
first.  If they become chlorotic as adults, I jerk them out.

Cathy, Sunset zone 23, US zone 10.

> From: Joe Seals <gardenguru@yahoo.com>
> Reply-To: gardenguru@yahoo.com
> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 09:58:39 -0800 (PST)
> To: gardenwithkitties@hotmail.com, medit-plants@ucdavis.edu
> Subject: Re: Companion Plants for Roses
> 
> Robin:
> 
> No debate.  I'm with you almost across the board.
> 
> I am not a "rosarian".  I only wrote what rosarians have told me and what I've
> read.
> 
> There's no doubt but that the trend in rose breeding is toward disease-free,
> minimal maintenance, "landscape" roses.  As of today, traditional
> high-meaintenance hybrid teas still outsell all other roses combined but it's
> slowly changing.  As you've pointed out, there are already hundreds of roses
> surviving in abandoned -- ZERO maintenance -- gardens throughout the country.
> 
> Personally, I'm all for "landscape" roses.  Personally, I'm all for some
> species roses (R. banksiae, R. laevigata, and R. rugosa especially).  And I
> think a lot more work can be done to involve such species in the hybridizing
> process rather than simply sticking to existing breeding material. There's at
> least three species of roses native to dry Mediterranean areas; let's get them
> into the loop.
> 
> The one minor area where I disagree is where you suggest amending soils to
> better grow roses (and other plants?).  I believe, first, that we should all
> plant the right plant in the right place.  That includes selecting plants for
> your native soil and climate.  Roses aren't meant for light, dry soils.
> Second, I believe that amending planting holes is a short term answer that
> research has shown to be the wrong way to plant.  So much for this universal
> practice.  These are the bigger principles of "natural gardening".
> 
> Joe
> robin corwin <gardenwithkitties@hotmail.com> wrote:
> However, I'd like to debate with you whether "good rosarians frown on
> planting anything around roses" whether for cultural or purist reasons. I
> know this is the way roses have often been grown in the past - some large
> public rose gardens still attest to this practice - but I always thought
> this was mostly because it was the style to grow hybrid teas (those roses
> that had been very popular since the 50's) enmasse in color blocks. And the
> fact that in the past it was felt that to grow roses well you needed to
> fertilize, fertilize, fertilize and spray, spray, spray with chemicals. In
> short, that they were high maintenance plants and because of this
> maintenance need, it was better not to plant anything around them.
> 
> I would like to think that styles and sentiments have changed and that "good
> rosarians" and good gardeners who love roses have learned that many roses do
> just fine with twice yearly applications of fertilizer, or even better,
> we've learned that it's best to feed the soil, not the plant and have worked
> on improving our soils with homemade compost, etc. Hopefully we've also
> learned that unless we are growing roses to "show", an organic approach to
> disease and pest problems is au courant and best for the environment,
> wherein I would think that growing companions with roses woud obviate the
> problems caused by growing roses as a monoculture.
> 
> I would not be in my right mind if I tried to tell anyone that roses are
> drought tolerant plants, but you must agree that they are grown and loved in
> all mediterranean climates. Shrub roses, old roses, species, teas, Chinas,
> Noisettes, and even some newer floribunda roses are really pretty easy care
> shrubs that are surprisingly tolerant of lapses in watering when well
> established. Look at Bill Grant's collection of species for instance, or
> all the roses found flourishing without any care or supplemental water at
> old homestead or cemetery sites in California and Texas.
> 
> 
> 
> Joe Seals
> Santa Maria, California --
> where the weather is always perfect
> and my NEW garden will soon be blooming and full of birds and butterflies
> 
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