Re: Is there an answer??
- Subject: Re: Is there an answer??
- From: &* a* M* <t*@xtra.co.nz>
- Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 17:29:25 +1300
Tony & Moira Ryan,
Wainuiomata,
Central New Zealand
----- Original Message -----
From: Pamela Steele
Thank you so much everyone.... I have been really delighted with all the
very interesting replies and I have decided to 'take the bull by the horns'.
I purchased a very healthy looking Cestrum elegans purpurea today and it had
somewhat encircled roots but it looked well so I have teased out carefully
some of the fine and uncircled a few of the bigger roots. I felt it was
the right thing to do in this case. I threw in some blood and bone with the
organomas and watered it well in ...so lets see.
Pamela
I do not grow Cestrums here as they are a bit too frost tender in my garden,
but I have encountered them over the hill in Lower Hutt and this species at
least is a tough no-nonsense type which should certainly cope easily with
some root disturbance.
Regarding circling roots. One authority I read years ago recommended cutting
these back to where they emerge from the root ball. Apparently it is very
difficult to counteract circling once it has got going, no matter how one
tries and root pruning on such forgiving plants as these will actually
stimulate nice new growth out in a straight line so the last state of the
plant is certainly better than the first. I have used this technique many
times for both tough evergreens and also many deciduous shrubs and trees
which had been left too long in their pots.and have been pleased with the
results.
Occasionally here garden centres have tended to keep bare rooted plants
(including roses) through the following summer by potting them up and then
sell them the following year in the containers. I several times came across
cases of this where the tree or bush had been planted without any attempt to
sort out the cramped roots and almost always these plants look awful and
grow poorly if at all. The only way to restore the situation is to take the
plant out of the ground when dormant, shake off all the soil and sort out
the roots properly, especially getting rid of any of those circlers. When
replanted these tree usually grow away vigorously and give no further
trouble.
Root pruning is of course commonly used on many container plants to
stimulate new growth to avoid having to increase the pot size. The most
drastic thing of this kind I ever attempted was to treat a very unhappy
Cedrus deodar which was growing in a pretty minimal-sized urn and near to
death from starvation. The owner wanted it left in this container for a
particular effect, so I turned it out, cut off a strip of root all round the
ball and put the tree back with a rich new helping of potting mix. For the
next two seasons (after which I did not garden there any more) there was a
remarkable improvement. The tree grew several inches and produced plenty of
rich green needles. It seems such a procedure can be repeated if required
every second or third year and maintain the effect for a very long time. It
is I suppose somewhat akin to the Bonsai technique which I have seen but not
myself practiced.
Mind you, I would not myself chose such a large tree to miniaturize in this
way. It seem akin to cruelty!
I also found a lovely Ocimum x basilicum purpureum?? (I think its that)
...has anyone experience of this in a Mediterranean climate? I found an
article on it in one of the MGS journals today by chance.
I presume you are aware this is an annual. It can be raised yearly from
spring-sown seed if you like or bought as a seedling..
Moira
Pamela
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-medit-plants@ucdavis.edu
[o*@ucdavis.edu]On Behalf Of Francisco Javier de la
Mota
Sent: 01 March 2008 21:05
To: Medit-Plants
Subject: Re: Is there an answer??
My explanation about rearranging the roots before planting is a general
rule, and like with anyother rule, there are exceptions to it. I can't
recall of any plant that I've killed because of messing with its roots, but
I have seen lots of examples of declining trees and shrubs due to bad
planting practices (including leaving the rootball intact). The one
execption I can think of are palms, yuccas, agaves and such type of plants.
Their finger-like roots are very prone to rot when injured, so I always
leave those intact before planting. But again, as a general rule, in my
climate, my soil and with the type of plant material usually available, I
have better chance for success if I do rearrange the roots of
cointainer-grown plants. This procedure usually means a little less growth
the first years after planting if some roots need to be cut, but the plant
will be happier and longer lived. As I always think when I am planting a
tree or shrub and messing with its roots, "The pain now is part of the
happiness then".
Fran
Madrid, Spain
----- Original Message -----
From: N Sterman
To: Carol Joynson
Cc: sunshine.works@gmail.com ; fdelamota@xerijardin.com ; Medit-Plants
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: Is there an answer??
Some plants are notoriously sensitive to root disturbance, Carol. Two that
come to mind right away are bougainvillea and Matilija poppy (Romneya sp).
It would be interesting to assemble a list of plants that we all know about
as being sensitive to root disturbance. Anyone else have a contribution?
Nan
On Mar 1, 2008, at 11:09 AM, Carol Joynson wrote:
Actually, my point was not so much the heartbreak of poinsettias, but that
there are plants that DON"T appreciate having their roots rearranged. My
question to the assembled is: is this common enough to warrant doing a
search on every plant, or is it relatively rare? And, does anyone know of a
list somewhere: "Don't touch the roots of these plants!"?
On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 8:11 PM, N Sterman <TalkingPoints@plantsoup.com>
wrote:
Those fancy poinsettias are so hybridized so far from the species that they
are not bred to survive as garden plants. If you want to grow one as a
garden plant, look for a species....
Nan
On Feb 28, 2008, at 1:51 PM, Cathe' wrote:
I have lost indoor poinsettias too. I don't understand their needs. I
had one outdoors in Caracus, Venezuela, and it was a bush about 6' wide by
8' tall. I hardly touched it and it loved the tropical climate.
When I lived in Chico CA, the previous owner planted 4 dogwoods, which never
grew an inch while i lived there (4 years). They were supposedly 7 years
old. Curious, I dug down, and I found giant roots circling the tree as if
still in a container.
I have a really good luck with planting trees following the guidelines of
University of California Davis which we have been taught as Master
Gardeners. This is to pull the root out of the pot as suggested earlier. I
always do this in a nursery Nursery people that complain do not receive my
business. I make sure there are not circling roots strangling the
plant/tree, and no J roots.
Once I have combed the tree roots in preparation to plant, I prune the
roots that are brown (outside and inside) until I see nice white (brown on
the outside and white inside).
Cathe'
On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 1:02 PM, Carol Joynson <carol.joynson@gmail.com>
wrote:
All good advice and true, but how do you know who the spoilers are? I got
lucky and looked up poinsettia on the web before I moved it from its
Christmas pot to a bigger pot on the patio. The advice was "don't disturb
the roots." I didn't, and the plant thrived so well that the next year I
needed to move it to a bigger pot. At which point my brain broke down and I
forgot all advice and spread the roots. Dead poinsettia. So - is there a
rule of thumb for which roots to disturb, or is it individual research?
On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 11:38 AM, Francisco J. de la Mota
<fdelamota@xerijardin.com> wrote:
Pamela,
Many nurseries (not all, but a good bunch of them) don't take good care of
the root system of the plants they grow. Very often, plants are set too deep
in de pot and the rootball is not disturbed when repoted, leading to a
concentric web of spiralized eventually girdling roots. Talking about
Spanish Garden Centers (where I assume you purchase your plants), very often
a plant that is not sold right away will remain in the same pot for many
years until it is finally sold. So.... Always check the roots of your plants
before planting! I buy plants from all over Europe and the USA, and now
(after poor results with some plants) I always wash of all the soil from
plants that have been pot grown and cut away all the girdling/potentially
girdling roots that have already developed. Then, I plant them in the new
soil (no soil from the original pot added) and at the right depth. I do this
with trees and shrubs. With perennials, I only loose the rootball.
Checking the root system before planting is something not than common in
Spain for the average gardener yet. Besides, many "gardeners" here have had
no training as gardeners at all... so false myths keep on rolling around,
unfortunately.
Fran
Madrid, Spain
----- Original Message -----
From: Pamela Steele
To: Medit-Plants
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 7:47 PM
Subject: Is there an answer??
I have been given alot of conflicting advice regarding planting small trees
and perennials from tubs over the past years and whether one should plant
the root ball intact ('don't touch it'! I have been told) or tease out the
roots gently. My (part time) gardener here in the Costa Blanca (not
Spanish I hasten to add) says that I must not disturb the root ball. I ask
this because I have had several plants die on me after 2 years ( Echium
candicans, Leonotis leonoris as examples) and when I pulled up the plant the
root ball was completely bound up, dried up and had not spread out. Both of
these plants had 'sister' plants' planted at the same time and which are
very successful. I have a watering system on all plants until established.
The conflicting advice to 'fan out the roots' when planting is very much of
interest and I would be fascinated to hear opinions from the very
experienced members of this group about this conundrum for me and would
appreciate any other information that could be helpful.
I am thinking of planting a Papaya ( Paw Paw) this Spring.
Best wishes
Pamela
