same feelings re:medit list& no-till
- To: loretta gerity jacobs , "m*@ucdavis.edu"
- Subject: same feelings re:medit list& no-till
- From: W* B*
- Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 10:08:18 -0700
Dear Loretta--I feel the same about this medit list. I am such an
amateur and so many of these people are published experts. Fortunately,
they are very patient and helpful with our nouveau-gardener questions,
and so willing to share their wealth of information; some of which
follows on NoTill (if I can do the attachment properly). Later, Wendy
Subject: no-till - 'mediterranean mounds'
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:55:18 -0800
From: "Sean A. O'Hara" <sean.ohara@groupmail.com>
To: medit-plants@ucdavis.edu
Clearly, there is great interest in the soil of our gardens, as evidenced
by this continuing thread! I would agree that soil is the most basic
element of a garden - you need to either deal with it, or accept it and
garden accordingly.
Some have proposed that we 'merely remove and replace' a poor soil with
something better. To those who have tried this, it turns out to be very
costly and can often bring about other problems. Where different soils
meet you can have an interface problems - usually making an impenetrable
barrier to water and roots. Mixing the wrong two soils together can
sometimes have worse results (I speak from experience!). Soil is a very
complex thing - the decision to mess with it in a major way is really like
playing God and therefore should not be taken lightly. Imported materials
might also be sterile and make for difficulties in successfully
establishing important soil fauna (as I discussed in a prior posting). If
your interest is merely utilitarian (i.e. growing vegies) and you have no
care how things might look, then simple raised beds can be very effective
to get around soil problems. In creating a harmonious landscape, this
might be less desirable.
One very successful and attractive method for heavy soils is berms. These
are artificially raised sections, 'little hills', providing better drainage
and a different soil mix for plants. Sierra Azul Nursery & Gardens, in
Watsonville, Calif., has a huge demonstration garden using this technique,
which they call 'mediterranean mounds'. To view these gardens, see this
URL:
http://www.support.net/Medit-Plants/resources/Sierra.Azul.html
They use a loamy sand mix (locally called 'red sand') which is great for
most mediterranean climate plants. It provides excellent drainage, is not
overly rich, and have the appropriate grittiness. Since the underlying
soil is also available to plants on the mounds, they can draw nurtrients
from the richer by heavier base soil. If you have some native soil on
hand, this may also be used to create these mounds, providing much better
drainage than the surrounding, flat areas. The undualting mounds can be
shaped to suit the site and make an attractive presentation of the
plants. They can have a 'front' and 'back', can create height interest,
define sections or 'rooms' in the garden, etc. They can enlarge an
otherwise flat planting area by creating vertical 'layers'. I often find
an appropriate opportunity to create such a mound in most of the gardens in
which I consult.
If anyone is really interested, Sierra Azul has a 4-page handout discussing
their 'mediterranean mounds'. You can pick one up at the nursery or send
me a self-addresses, stamped envelope and I will be happy to send you a
copy.
Regards,
Sean O.
Sean A. O'Hara sean.ohara@groupmail.com
h o r t u l u s a p t u s 710 Jean Street
'a garden suited to its purpose' Oakland, CA 94610-1459, U.S.A.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Ask me about the worldwide Mediterranean gardening discussion group
Subject: newspaper mulch
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:03:51 -0800
From: "William A. Grant" <grant@cruzio.com>
To: medit-plants@ucdavis.edu
In Trevor Nottle's book Gardens of the Sun he explains how to prepare a bed,
line it with b/w newsprint, cover it with mulch, and then plant. I did that
three years ago and the area is thriving as never before. I soaked the area
for several days before putting down the newsprint. Then I soaked that for
several days. I took a fork and poked holes all over the area. Then I
covered everything with rich soil about four inches thick. Then I watered
that several days. And then let things sit for a week. Then I carefully cut
holes and planted a lot of salvia, phormium, iris, grasses, several roses,
etc.etc. Everything has done so well and not a SINGLE weed has appeared. The
most amazing part is this - the soil was awful to begin with and had no
redeeming values. Not now.
bill grant, central coast California
Subject: No-till and clay
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 22:45:47 -0800
From: rlance@sonnet.com (Rebecca Lance)
To: medit-plants@ucdavis.edu
John Schlesinger writes that he remains a skeptic about the no-till method
as used on california clay.
Two years ago, my husband and I bought a 5 acre parcel in the Sierra
foothills. It consists of red adobe clay that had been seriously compacted
by construction and horses that pastured on the acreage. My husband, who
is an arborist and a "chip" fanatic, insisted that we could amend the soil
by just laying wood chips over it. I insisted that organic material needed
to be tilled in. We did both. I amended the areas I wanted to set up as
immediate garden beds, and layed chips over those I planned to till up in
the future.
He was right. The beds I amended are still struggling. The organic
material has not broken down well, but sits instead in wet clumps under
the ground, fostering an ideal environment for the root fungi that attack
the native and drought tolerant plants I grow.
The areas I laid chips over, (and some of these were horrible) have been
completely transformed. The soil is now darker and looser in color for
several feet down.
I don't understand it. I can't explain it, but I have to believe it.
Since I have more land that I can possibly garden on all at once, my
strategies have changed. I plan beds years in advance; lay the chips down,
and wait.
Rebecca Lance
Sonora CA
White Mountain Tree Care
Subject: Re: no-till gardening
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 12:03:21 -0800
From: "Sean A. O'Hara" <sean.ohara@groupmail.com>
To: medit-plants@ucdavis.edu
CC: Barbara Sargent <rsgt@california.com>
I think I can say with all honestly that Santa Clara clay is
far worse that any found in Berkeley, having gardened in both
places! Our local clays are the best worst soils you can get
'stuck' with (pun intended!). They are naturally very rich in
nutrients (since they don't leach out!). It is just the
texture and lack of drainage that are the problem.
If you have a real drainage problem - i.e. you have standing
water for days after a rain or spots which almost never dry out,
then investigating some simple drainage technology would be
advisable. This should be done first, before developing and
planting an area. The winter rains should have already
brought out whatever problems you might have.
One of the problem with clay is that it really resents
being tilled. You have to catch it at exactly the correct
time - not too wet, not too dry. Otherwise, you can do more
damage to the soil texture that good. I have seen it over
and over again - test plots adjacent to each other, one
heavily tilled and amended, the other merely mulched on
top. The former gets off to a better start, but the latter
often does far better over the long run, if the other is not
mulched as well.
One of the best methods I've seen is to start with a top-
dressing of compost directly on top of the soil. If the
soil in question is already very compacted from foot traffic
or some other use, it should be gently spaded to open it up
a bit. The put about 2-3 (or more) compost on top. Put
about the same amount (or more) mulch on top of this. Mulch
should be a good mixture of material - leaves, lawn clippings,
shedding trimmings, chippings from a tree company, etc.
Whatever you can get in quantity and the more types the better.
After a season of this settling in and rotting down, the clay
will have opened up quite a bit and should be more routinely
moist due to the effects of the mulch. You can now pull back
some of the mulch and till in the compost. Apply more
compost and they reapply and refresh the mulch. Keep a
permanent mulch of 2-3 inches (or more) on the soil at all
times. You can add gypsum to our clays to help bond the small
individual particles of clay into larger particles, making for
a more loamy texture. This will take a number of years to see
any effect, but an effect you will see is you apply the gypsum
every 3-6 months during that time. You cannot really put too
much on. It is not toxic. But it works slowly.
If your pesticide and herbicide use is minimal or absent, you
will notice a florishing of microbial life in your layers of
mulch and compost. As things balance out, there may be flushes
of some type of fungus or some other type of organizm - these
will pass over time. Ultimately, all of this activity will help
your plants grow better and keep pathogens at bay. A good mix
of soil life helps prevent diseases before they start.
You may notice some chlorosis at the beginning of this process.
This is due to iron being temporary lost to the composting
process. It is later returned and this effect will balance out.
You may also notice snails and slug might abound - this will also
be more dramatic at first, but you will likely need to still
investigate ways to deal with these mollusks. Interestingly, a
new iron sulfate spray for snails/slugs can help eliminate both
of the mollusk and iron problem. Clay soils left to their own
will also tend to be clorotic due to iron being locked onto the
clay particles. The technique being described here helps
prevent this phenomenon.
The point here is to create a statified soil structure (the
'lazagna' effect) that is rich in soil life. This microbial
world is a natural system that benefits the plants growing in the
soil. Merely amending soil, applying fertilizers, etc. does not
create this effect. It takes time to create it but it takes
care of itself more and more over time (and you and your plants).
It works. It is natural. It is what plants have evolved to
grow in. Not using this method means YOU have to play God and
make sure your plants always have everything they might need,
even though they need more things that scientists have been able
to figure out to date. This is an example of using appropriate
unnatural means (our cultivation of the plants we wish to grow
on the spot we wish to grow them) to harness a natural process
to work for us. We unnaturally provide the raw materials for the
natural process to take place.
Sean O.
Sean A. O'Hara sean.ohara@groupmail.com
h o r t u l u s a p t u s 710 Jean Street
'a garden suited to its purpose' Oakland, CA 94610-1459, U.S.A.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Ask me about the worldwide Mediterranean gardening discussion group
Subject: Re: seed starting in no-til
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 19:05:16 +0100
From: "f. cardama" <ban@mx3.redestb.es>
To: "f. cardama" <ban@mx3.redestb.es>
CC: Mediterannean Plants List <medit-plants@ucdavis.edu>
----- Original Message -----
From: "f. cardama" <ban@mx3.redestb.es>
To: <rsgt@california.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2000 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: seed starting in no-til
> barbara
> the way I do it is to pull the mulch away to expose the crumbly soil,
> deposit the seeds on it and cover thinly.
> as the plantlets grow, I replace the mulch.
>
> If you are starting no till you are in for a pleasant surprise
>
> francisco
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Barbara Sargent" <rsgt@california.com>
>
> > I'm thinking a lot about no-til methods and have begun with newspaper,
> > compost and leaves. But I'm now wondering whether it will be possible to
> > start seeds this way. I usually plant lettuce and carrot seeds right in
> the
> > ground. How would it be done in a no-til situation?
> >
> > Barbara
> >
>
