RE: Mediterranean is a Big Word
- Subject: RE: Mediterranean is a Big Word
- From: d* f* <d*@yahoo.com>
- Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 09:50:01 -0700 (PDT)
A few things that I noted in reading Pamela's failure list of plantings, and possible reasons for the failures:
1. Not all plants that quite like coastal California Mediterranean climatic conditions will do equally well in more inland, hotter/colder ones. I noticed a few New Zealander plants such as Leptospermum and Meryta on your list, and the first will prefer a cooler, foggier climate over a hotter, interior valley one, and when used in hotter locations, is better adapted where it is protected from hot winds, and gets some dappled shade or morning sun in preference to all day hot sun. The Meryta is also more adapted to a maritime, more humid environment, and so would prefer some shade, wind protection and frost protection as well.
2. Not all Mediterranean climate plants will do as well in alkaline soil conditions, and the pH could definitely be part of the reason they don't do well. Most California natives come from areas with neutral to only slightly basic soil pH, as compared to large parts of the Mediterranean coastlines.
3. Plants that prefer a slightly cooler coastal exposure from other Mediterranean climates may require shade and proper orientation to tolerate more heat. A lot of the California Ceanothus fit this description, and even in California, when planted in hotter interior valleys with less coastal influence, need some shade during the day or morning sun over all day sun to compensate for the heat and greater water loss.
4. Season of planting can make a great difference in getting touchy plants to get established; in general, if they are cold hardy, it will almost always be best to plant slightly after the initial seasonal rains start, to make maximum use of the cooler winter growing season and likelihood of sustained rains to get them established.
5. Time of day of irrigation can make a difference as well with many plants that are sensitive to summer watering. Phytopthera is more of a problem with sensitive plants if watering is done in combination with warm soil temperatures. California natives such as Ceanothus, Arctostaphylos, Fremontodendron are best established so that they don't require regular watering in summer, as they are all sensitive. If watering is absolutely required for these, plant from initial smaller sizes, mulch heavily, water only in the cool of the night, and limit irrigation to less frequency, perhaps only once or twice a month. Many South African fynbos plants as well as Australian plants are also susceptible.
There is a huge difference in Mediterranean climates around the world, I suspect that California's coastal environment is in some ways more similar to a Cloud Forest than the typical Medit climate with its daily summer fogs and lack of high heat in summer. Our rainy season is also shorter in duration and more distinctively dry all summer than many parts of Europe's Mediterranean basin which do get some summer rains, and don't have such a truncated rainy season that may only start in late November and end before April.
In selecting Mediterranean climate plants, or plants from other parts of the world that grow in our climate, pay attention to what the conditions of soil pH, soil types, seasonality of rainfall, annual climatic temperature ranges are in their native habitat to help predict what they will prefer in your own garden. while many plants have proven to be broadly tolerant of a range of conditions, others are more specific in their tolerances. We are given a big hand in this selection process with cultural/climatic information provided by books such as Sunset Garden Encyclopedia, which lists plants by the Sunset zones. While not a perfect match for Europe's Mediterranean zones, it is certainly useful for gleaning more information before you plant those new plants that are not familiar ones in your local area.
--- On Sun, 9/21/08, Pamela Steele <pamela.steele@re-taste.com> wrote:
> From: Pamela Steele <pamela.steele@re-taste.com>
> Subject: RE: Mediterranean is a Big Word
> To: bridgetlamp@gmail.com, "Medit-Plants" <medit-plants@ucdavis.edu>
> Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 1:52 AM
> Hello Bridget
>
> I am sure that I have planted them the wrong time but that
> being said they
> were all on watering system which I always do for the first
> 2 summers for
> small plants and 3 summers for trees. ...I hope thats the
> right regime?
> .... But, I also think perhaps its a combination of things.
> One of the
> problems could be the quality of the plants which we get
> here in the
> nurseries in Spain.
>
> Thank you for your comments which are much appreciated.
>
> I have taken on board all the generous advice from
> everybody and look
> forward to any further comments!
>
>
> Pamela
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-medit-plants@ucdavis.edu
> [o*@ucdavis.edu]On Behalf Of Bridget
> Lamp
> Sent: 20 September 2008 22:20
> To: Medit-Plants
> Subject: Re: Mediterranean is a Big Word
>
>
> Hi, Pamela,
>
> I was wondering if the timing of planting affected how
> well your plants
> survived the droughty summers where you live. Maybe
> planting in the fall
> would help ensure their survival. Some people make the
> mistake of thinking
> that drought tolerant plants can survive their first couple
> of summers with
> little water.
>
> Sorry if I'm stating the obvious!
> Bridget
> Seattle, WA
>
>
> 2008/9/20 Cali Doxiadis <gastouri@ker.forthnet.gr>
>
> Yes, he must have it because he sells it from the
> website.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pamela
> Steele"
> <pamela.steele@re-taste.com>
>
> To: "Medit-Plants"
> <medit-plants@ucdavis.edu>;
> <cdoxiadis@telefonica.net>
> Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 10:51 AM
>
> Subject: RE: Mediterranean is a Big Word
>
>
>
>
> Dear Cali.
> Thank you for your comments....and yes I think I have
> made some
> mistakes
> with regard to placement of the plants. I will need
> to do some
> re-thinking.
> Its great news about the book in English......... I
> have been waiting
> for
> this for a long time. We are going up to Olivier
> Fillippi's
> Pepiniere at
> the end of October to buy some plants and I will
> email him to find if
> he has
> the English edition, if not I have checked and
> Amazon have it.
> Pamela
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-medit-plants@ucdavis.edu
> [o*@ucdavis.edu]On Behalf Of
> Cali Doxiadis
> Sent: 19 September 2008 15:56
> To: pamela.steele@re-taste.com;
> benwiswall@pacbell.net; medit plants
> forum
> Subject: Re: Mediterranean is a Big Word
>
>
> Pamela, Olivier Filippi's book is now out in
> English (Thames and
> Hudson).
> In it one reads that it's not just a question of
> "to water or not to
> water"
> but "when, how often, and how?" Many of
> your plants that died might
> not
> have under a different planting/watering regime. I
> have found that it
> helps
> to plant in zones of similar watering needs,
> otherwise it can get
> confusing....
> Cali
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pamela Steele"
> <pamela.steele@re-taste.com>
> To: <benwiswall@pacbell.net>; "medit
> plants forum"
> <medit-plants@ucdavis.edu>
> Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 2:56 PM
> Subject: RE: Mediterranean is a Big Word
>
>
>
> Hello Ben
> We have had some major disappointments this year.
> We are not
> classfied as
> 'inland' Mediterranean as our villa is 300
> meters from the
> Mediterranean
> sea
> about 100 meters high on a rocky alkaline coast
> mostly with
> indigenous
> Pinus
> Halepensis of which we have about 15 in our garden,
> but I thought
> you
> might
> be interested.
>
> Although we had a week of unseasonal good solid
> rain in early June I
> have
> still lost plants which I have planted in the last
> 3 years. All the
> big
> established (20 years or so) trees and shrubs are
> fine so I wont
> discuss
> those.
>
> Plants that have died or a languishing since I
> planted them:
> Ceonothus griseus (after 3 years of magnificent
> blooms and a trunk
> of
> around
> 50cm in the space of last three weeks it has become
> brown and
> dead.)Unbelievable!
> Leptospermum scoparium has been about 18 inches for
> 2 years...very
> disappointing
> 4 Lavendula dentata planted 2 years ago ..dead
> Pittosporum tenufolium 'Variegatum'
> planted April ...dead
> Lavendula angustifolia planted April.... dead
> Cistus laurifolius subsp 'Atlanticus'
> planted in april...dead
> Grevillea olivacea planted April ...dead
> Thymus vulgarus planted April ...dead
> Salvia officinalis planted April ...dead
> Salvia officinalis 'Icterina' planted April
> ...dead
> Thymus pseudolanuginosus (Woolly Thyme) planted
> March ..... dead
> Clianthus puniceus 'Flamingo' planted April
> ..dead
> Meryta sinclairii( New Zealand Puka)...dying much
> to my great
> disappointment, it lost all its leaves and just
> looks dreadful. I
> thought
> it
> might be root rot as it was on a watering system
> (its only 18 months
> old)
> so
> I treated it but to no avail. I am wondering if I
> should prune it
> now as
> a
> last resort.......
>
> Some successes .....Frankly I don't hold my
> breath anymore and just
> hope
> that they will survive but at the moment they look
> good
>
> Rosemary prostrata (excellent)
> Eriobotrya japonica (excellent)
> Ficus carica (good)
> Feijoa sellowiana (v.good)
> Arbutus unedo (very good)
> Morus alba Pendula (v.good)
> Acacia longifolia (excellent
> Acacia dealbata (excellent)
> Ceratonia siliqua (excellent)
> Ficus nitida (excellent)
> Ficus elastica (excellent)
> Grevillea robusta (good)
> Laurus nobilis (good)
> Olea europea (excellent)
> Plumeria rubra alba (3 years old0 (good) but I am
> sceptical here!.
> Schinus molle (excellent)
> Cestrum nocturnum (v.good)
> Cestrum elegans purpurea (v.good)
> Justicia brandecans (good)
> Westringia fruticosa var. Alba (good)
> Teucrium fruiticans (excellent)
> Acanthus mollis (excellent)
>
> All these Palms do well * denotes new plant under 3
> years old
> Chamaerops humilis
> Cordyline australis (New Zealand cabbage tree) *
> Cordyline baurei (Red Leaved Dracaena) *
> Cycas revoluta
> Dypsis lutescens (Areca lutescens) (Butterfly
> palm) *
> Macrozamia communis (Australian cycad) *
> Musa *
> Phoenix canariensis
> Phoenix sylvestris (Silver Date Palm)
> Phoenix roebelenii *
> Syagrus romanzoffiana *
> Washingtonia robusta
> Washingtonia filifera
> Yucca gloriosa
> Zamia furfuracea Cardboard palm *
>
> Succulents never die here so we have a lot. Bulbs
> and rhizomes are
> not
> always easy except Agapanthus
>
> We are not fond of Cactus so we don't have any
> except Opuntia
> ficus-indica
>
> I hope this is of interest and there may be some
> correlations. I
> have
> become quite philosopical about my plants now as we
> have lost quite
> alot
> and
> it really depressed me. I don't think its to do
> with watering or not
> watering because I have tried all regimes but I am
> minded now to
> think
> that
> its more of wrong plant, wrong place.
>
> Pamela
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-medit-plants@ucdavis.edu
> [o*@ucdavis.edu]On Behalf Of
> Ben Wiswall
> Sent: 19 September 2008 01:59
> To: medit plants forum
> Subject: Mediterranean is a Big Word
>
>
> Not long ago we took a family trip from southern
> California to
> Silicon
> Valley. We travelled through the Tehachapi
> Mountains, the San
> Joaquin
> Valley, and the inland foothills on the way north,
> then south
> through the
> coast ranges to Santa Cruz, Monterey, and Carmel,
> and on through Big
> Sur,
> San Luis Obispo, Santa Barbara, and Ventura. We
> covered a lot of
> ground.
> For the entire journey we were in the California
> Floristic Province,
> or
> the
> mediterranean climate region of California, and yet
> the climate and
> vegetation varied greatly from place to place.
>
>
> What I've found in our own garden in Simi
> Valley, a hot, dry inland
> valley
> north of Los Angeles, is that the greatest
> difference in
> mediterranean
> climates (for a gardener, anyway) is determined by
> distance from the
> ocean
> or sea. I've found many coastal species,
> whether native like Myrica
> californica or introduced like Leptospermum
> scoparium, languish in
> my
> inland
> garden regardless of the irrigation schedule.
>
>
> Can any of you gardening in inland mediterranean
> areas recommend
> plants
> that
> have thrived for you? I've had good luck with
> Olea, Laurus,
> Melaleuca,
> Heteromeles, Arbutus, Cistus, Ceanothus, Lavandula,
> Rosmarinus, and
> Limonium, bad luck with Myrica, Leptospermum,
> Viburmum, most
> Arctostaphylos,
> and Acacia, and middling success with most
> succulents and bulbs.
>
>
> Anyone else's triumphs or failures would be
> welcome!
>
>
> Ben Armentrout-Wiswall
> Simi Valley, California
>
>
>
>
>
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