Re: Problematic Pergola

Hi All,
Thanks everyone for the useful information on pergolas and vines.  This is what I love about this list serve.

If I had to do it over, I'd probably not choose Vitis californica 'Roger's Red': it's a nice looking vine, and the fall color is bright enough to satisfy a New Englander, but apart from slow growth, it really does make a mess for a couple of months.  This year I harvested most of the grapes while they were still green, yet I still have a constant drizzle of half-dried grapes staining the furniture.

Increasingly I think it best not to rely on plants for practical reasons: a drought-tolerant hedge might provide privacy, but a masonry wall will do it better on infinitely less water, won't need trimming, and won't burn in a wildfire.  Ice plants use less water and fertilizer than mown grass, but gravel and flagstone are even less work and no water.

In this light, constructed shade is fast and easy compared to waiting years for a vine that will need tending and clean-up.  So lath or shade-cloth are my likely route for the pergola.

That's not to say I don't love or want plants in our garden.  It's just that most plants are more satisfactory if treated like guests at a party, as opposed to servants for climate control and privacy.

Thanks again for the feedback!
-Ben Armentrout-Wiswall
Simi Valley, inland southern California

From: "yarrow@sfo.com" <yarrow@sfo.com>
To: medit plants forum <medit-plants@ucdavis.edu>
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:39:22 PM
Subject: Re: Problematic Pergola

What kind of grapes?

I know someone who has a Vitis 'Roger's Red' (half-native) grape on an arbor over a glider, and when I've visited, it looked like it did provide good shade. But it's not a good choice if you're looking for grapes to eat out of hand. These grapes have large seeds, and are best used for juice. I haven't grown one myself, but Roger's Red has a reputation for being fast and rampant here in northern Calif.

On the other hand, I know someone else with a vigorous grape vine (either green grapes or red grapes) that created good shade in a year or two and produces well, but often the ants get to the grapes first and eat them all!

If I had a pergola to cover, the vine I've been wanting to grow is hardy kiwi (the one that's not fuzzy), mostly for the fruit.
 
Tanya
sunset zone 17

At 3:41 PM -0700 9/19/09, Ben Wiswall wrote:
Hi All,
I'm still fussing over a pergola that is not fulfilling its purpose, namely, to provide comfortable SHADY outdoor seating and dining in summer.

I chose grapes as the vine to do the job, believing they were tough and fast, and had long historical precedent for growing on pergolas.
So, my question is: does anyone have a pergola shrouded in grape vines?  Does it provide DENSE shade in summer for you?  Does it drop half-dried grapes/raisins on you while you are reposing in the shade?
After four summers, should I give it one more season, or start over with a different vine, or lattice, or shade cloth?

Following are some photos of the pergola taken in midsummer.  I increased irrigation shortly afterwards,and the vines have responded by producing some late growth, but not too much.


Thanks for any advice!
-Ben Armentrout-Wiswall
Simi Valley, inland southern California

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