Re: Pronouncing Latin, English and/or American English (was: Pronouncing Pittosporum)

It is very easy to forget that pittosporum is now an English word, as well
as a New Latin word.  As an English word we spell it with a lowercase "p";
as a Latin word, we capitalize the "p".  Although there are guidelines for
pronouncing words that one has never had the privilege of actually hearing
(and we seem to have been trying to apply these in the postings of the past
few days), the basic rule for pronunciation is usage.  The Merriam-Webster
people are widely conceded to be the leading lexicographers in the United
State (i. e. for American English), and their Third New International
Dictionary of the English Language, Unabridged (1961) not only follows
usage, but is quite unequivocal about how the various genera are customarily
pronounced in the United States.

My advice to anyone who wants to know how any genus name is supposed to be
pronounced is to look it up in the dictionary.  Unfortunately, many people
do not feel that an unabridged dictionary is worth its price, and I have
numerous friends who think nothing of paying more than the price of an
unabridged dictionary for one or two family dinners at a good restaurant.  A
used damaged copy of the Third New International was auctioned today at
Amazon.com and went for $27.00.  Amazon offers it new for less than $84.00.
The microprint edition (with magnifying glass of the first edition of the
Oxford English dictionary is being auctioned this week on Amazon.com at a
reserve price of $46, which has not yet been met.  I paid $75 for this
edition more than thirty years ago, before inflation; I consider $46 to be a
great bargain price.

But looking up a genus in the dictionary doesn't tell you how to pronounce
the word; it only tells you how you are SUPPOSED to pronounce it.  The way
to pronounce it is the way your friends pronounce it.  If you have a large
public audience, revert to the dictionary pronunciation if you don't know
your listeners.  It behooves us all to remember the expression "When in
Rome, New York, do as the Romans do."  I have a friend who pronounces the
genus Azalea "eggzaylia" (I wouldn't dream of correcting him, unless he
asked), but you will not find that pronunciation in the Third New
International.  What you WILL find there is the standard American
pronunciation of that English-language word.  It happens that "azalea" is
also an Italian-language word, and in Italian dictionaries you will find it
pronounced "oz-uh-LAY-uh."  If you ask a Roman, on the Spanish Steps, why
uh-ZAYLE-yuhs are found only in pots in Italy, and never in the ground, you
will be met with a blank stare.  Write your question, then, on a piece of
paper, and you will be met with a surprised "OH!!!! Oz-uh-LAY-uhs!  Oh, yes.
I'm sorry, I didn't quite understand you at first.  You see, the Italian
soil is so acid-free that they will simply wither and die if you plant them
in the ground."  Much embarrassed smiling and bridling, accomplished in the
most polite manner.

Ilex is an English word about whose pronunication (in English) there can be
no dispute.  Our dictionaries give it a long "i" with no ifs, ands or buts.
But you surely don't think that that is how the French word "Ilex" is
pronounced, do you?  If you want Gallic comprehension, you'd better say
"E-lex."

There are, of course, important differences between English English and
American English.  Do honor them.   I'm told that the word "forsythia" is
usually pronounced "for-SCYTHE-ia" in England.  All my American friends say
"for-SITH-ia" and the Third New International backs them up.  I was brought
up never to put on airs, so I'm not going to go around the United States
distracting people by saying "for-SCYTHE-ia."  If you're lecturing to the
public and you don't use the local pronunciation, you lose your audience.
They're so busy thinking, 'My!  he said for-SCYTHE-ia!  Could that be right?
Could he be English?  Should EYE start saying for-SCYTHE-ia?  Is he putting
on airs?"  By the time they've answered all these questions, and started to
listen to you again, they've missed at least two paragraphs of your lecture,
and possibly your main point, not to mention putting you down as a snob

Sometimes, pronunciations are very localized.  There was a time when it was
fashionable to say, in northern Virginia, "ca-MELL-ya" instead of
"ca-MEAL-ya".  Someone had noticed that the man for whom the genus was named
was Camellus, ne Josef Kamel.  Not to be outdone, everyone in the vicinity
was soon extending a pinkie while saying "You MUST come and see mah
ca-MELL-yas."
Merriam-Webster is quite blunt about these matters: "ca-'meal-yuh".

The main thing to remember is that ALL genera are English words.  Many
so-called "Latin" words, as used for the names of plants, are really only
"New Latin" (also called "Botanical Latin") and most of them didn't exist
until the time of Linnaeus (1707-1778).  Among those that do antedate him,
as English words, are "geranium"(1548), "iris"(15th c.), and "phlox"(1601),
just to give three examples.  "Ilex" goes back, as an English word, to the
14th century.  "New Latin" is a new term (1890) that refers to words created
since medieval times for the purpose of scientific description and
classification.

All genera are also French words.  All genera are also German words.  All
genera are also Italian words.  All genera are AUTOMATICALLY words in the
language of any country in which they are used by an element of the
populace.  The important thing is they are pronounced, in each language,
according to the custom of the country in which that language is being
spoken.  Thus, Australian "New Latin" pronunciation can, and should, be
quite different from American New Latin pronunciation on occasion.

You can do no better than to vow NEVER to correct anyone else's "Latin."  If
you do correct it, you're really correcting their English!  What to do when
people correct yours?  You know, they have two ways of correcting you.  If
they say, "that's wrong; it's ka-MELL-yuh," you're entitled to a polite,
reasoned rebuttal.  But if they respond to you merely by repeating the word
but with a pronunciation noticeably different from yours, why not just
quietly change over to theirs for the duration of the conversation?  This
will give them a superior feeling, which anyone so crass as to counter
another person's pronunciation probably needs.

Of course, someone may ask, either with an outright question or by
inflection, if es pronunciation is correct.  In such cases, you are free to
express your opinion.  But always remember that civility and taste are
important elements in the pronunciation of "Latin."

By the way, Merriam-Webster's Third is quite uncharitable about alternatives
to "puh-TOSS-puh-rum".

Harry Dewey, Beltsville, Maryland USA
-----Original Message-----
From: K1MIZE@aol.com <K1MIZE@aol.com>
To: medit-plants@ucdavis.edu <medit-plants@ucdavis.edu>
Date: Thursday, September 09, 1999 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: Pronuncing Pittosporum


>Well, I'm a native Californian, and I've never heard anyone here refer to
it
>as anything other than Pitt'-o-spor'-um.  It's all rather silly, isn't it?
I
>remember reading an article once by Christopher Lloyd, wherein he ridiculed
>those who insist upon doing a little 'hiccup' at the end when pronouncing
>specific names based upon surnames, for example:  Douglasii, Abramsii,
>Hallii, Robinsonii, etc.  He always pronounces such specific names
>Douglas-eye, Abrams-eye, Hall-eye, Robinson-eye, etc.,  and makes no
excuses
>about it.  I rather doubt that anyone tries to correct his pronunciation,
>either.
>
>Kurt Mize
>Stockton, California
>USDA Zone 9
>
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