Re: Rudbeckia hirta

In a message dated 99-08-03 12:04:54 EDT, Val wrote:  

>> I must tell you, however, that in my zone  6 garden in KY it did indeed 
self-sow.<<

Yes, I'm in zone 6, too.  But the hardiness zone is only one factor in 
whether or not a plant self sows successfully.  While plants in your garden 
and mine would get similar cold stratification periods, the spring conditions 
could vary greatly.  Conditions such as daylength and moisture in the spring 
play critical roles in seed germination.  

 >> These are extremely easy from seed, which is how I started mine.<<

Thanks, Val.  That is good to know.  

 >> Since you  can start these this way, why is it not also logical that they 
could
 self-sow?<<

Yes, it is logical they would self sow, but that doesn't necessarily mean the 
seeds will germinate.  

>> I agree with the garden conditions playing a heavy role, as I'm
 totally disgusted by the fact that my foxglove refuse to multiply
 themselves despite others' successes.<<

In my garden the foxgloves readily self sow, but not the Rudbeckia hirta 
'Indian Summer', which is just the opposite of yours, Val, and we're both in 
zone 6.  So there's an example.  But we need to remember that conditions can 
vary from year to year in the same garden.  Perhaps one spring you will find 
foxglove seedlings in your garden and I'll find 'Indian Summer' in mine.  

While my experience with R. hirta 'Indian Summer' was limited to one season, 
other gardeners in this area have reported that it did not self seed for them 
either.  Is there anyone on the list from the St. Louis area for whom it has? 
 

Also on the subject, 
In a message dated 99-08-03 12:04:54 EDT, Paul wrote: 
 
>>...a strain might have genes for both being  annuals and short lived 
perennials.
 There are many plants that behave this way.  Were some seedlings are annuals 
 and others are perennials.<<

Thanks, Paul.  Very interesting. That may mean that not only do garden 
conditions help determine whether R. hirta behaves as an annual, biennial or 
perennial, it might also be genetic.  
 
>>On the question on weather a seed raised plant can come true to type-the 
 answer is YES. Look at all the vegetables that are grown-they come true to 
 type...If a line has all dominate genes or all recessive genes and is not 
bread with 
 those that have dominate genes then they will come true to type.<<

Well, of course seedlings can be true to type.  If not, the seed companies 
would be out of business.  But we are not talking about controlled breeding 
here.  In nature, the whole point of seed propagation is that there will be 
seedling variation, and thus natural selection and species survival.  Seeds 
are sexual reproduction, so there will always be variation.  But I nit pick 
here. True-to-type does not mean identical. The process is slow, and 
variations might be so slight as not to be discernable to the gardener. 

My surprise that 'Indian Summer' came true-to-type was based on the fact that 
this is a cultivar, and in the garden cultivated varieties quite often do 
not. 

Also,  variation is commonly evident within the composite family.  There was 
a recent discussion on the list of seedling variation in Echinacea.  
Rudbeckia fulgida does self sow in my garden and I see a lot of variation 
with it, too.

In the wild, I also frequently observe evidence of the various native 
Rudbeckia species freely cross-pollinating.   

In any case, the comments of Dr. Armitage, Val's experience, and Paul's 
information have convinced me that Rudbeckia hirta 'Indian Summer' does, 
indeed, come true to type from seed.  Now, if I can just get it to do so in 
my garden!  --Janis


 

 
 

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