Re: bindweed killer
Doug,
(I am leaving your entire response in place as it merits reading again..)Thank
you for your patience in regards to the unfortunate off list post sent
you..(Bindweed can make you nasty:-)
I tend to agree with your stance on this as I have gardened in both
Northern(Idaho) (tending to acid soil and considerable moisture rain,snow)and
south where I now garden..
Here its high desert ,with the typical soils one finds in those
environments.Soil Ph runs high and humus is almost non-exisitant unless you add
it or work very hard to create it..They have Pine trees we have sage brush get
the picture?
I have observed that bindweed does occur in the N.Idaho but never in the
numbers and
invasiveness as here in the where obviously conditions are just about ideal for
their stunning 'success'. In other words just as you stated.So ten years here
already and its still a battle because the soil will revert to desert ph in one
season if you cant keep up with it but with any luck the numbers will continue
to dwindle.
Thanks again.
Connie
Doug Green wrote:
> I received a rather snarky off-list note from a member of this list
> concerning my posting about bindweed and soil. While the contents of that
> note and personal attacks are of no concern to the list, her lack of
> understanding and questions about basic soil microbial processes made me
> aware that there were probably others who didn't understand the basics of
> what I was talking about when I wrote about soil and bindweed.
>
> I think it relevant to a list on perennials because it speaks to a whole
> manner of gardening. Soil is at the bottom (excuse the pun):-) of the
> entire gardening experience. Get the soil right and you can grow darn near
> anything. Screw it up and you'll have the worst gardening nightmare you can
> imagine. Growing perennials depends on creating good soil. Or, getting rid
> of noxious weeds.
>
> So, with apologies to those who got it, here's version three - last and
> final try.
>
> Let me make it quite clear. Most of this data (as was credited in the last
> post) is from the book "Weed Control Without Poisons" by Charles Walters.
> Those of you who only wish to hear of personal experiences should stop
> reading now.;-) I confess because I have a fertile, sand-silt soil base
> (along with a good smattering of Eastern Ontario rock) I do not have a
> bindweed problem. The odd one that pops up is easily pulled out. Why this
> is true is the subject of the following note.
>
> In my original posting I wrote:
>
> "Bindweed (Convolvulus sepium) is most often found on soils that have
> improper decay properties. In other words, organic matter can not decay
> properly for any number of reasons."
>
> Why can't organic matter decay? The question is rather, "what promotes
> organic matter decay?" Organic matter decays when the acidity pH,
> temperature, moisture, oxygen, carbon-nitrogen ratio are in the correct
> range and the appropriate soil micro-organisms are present. If any of these
> major conditions are missing or off-target, then organic matter decay is
> inhibited or stopped.
>
> Let us look then at compacted soil. Compaction smashes the soil particles
> together and reduces the air spaces between them. Reduced spaces equal
> reduced oxygen levels. With a reduced level of oxygen, organic matter can
> not decay at optimum levels.
>
> Let us say that this soil is also over-watered. The spaces that used to
> contain oxygen, now contain water.
>
> Decomposition that used to use oxygen (Aerobic - in the presence of oxygen)
> now turns to rotting or (Anaerobic- without the presence of oxygen)
> anerobic composition. One of the products of anaerobic decomposition is
> alcohol and other preservative esters. In anaerobic decomposition, the
> alcohol actually pickles the organic matter and prevents or slows down
> decomposition.
>
> Clay soils with their small air spaces due to small particle size have
> similar problems as a matter of course. This is one reason why gardeners
> should never cultivate clay soils too early in the spring - you ruin
> whatever air spaces are left in the soil and create concrete.
>
> If the pH is off, then instead of primarily a bacterial decomposition,
> you'll get a fungi decomposition. Different micro-organisms are supported
> by different acidity levels. You have to adjust the soil pH to support
> appropriate micro-organisms.
>
> If the carbon:nitrogen ratio is not 30:1, then decomposition will not take
> place. You need the nitrogen to break down the organic matter carbon. If
> excess Nitrogen is found in the soil, you'll stop the entire process until
> the N disappears. Excess N will also kill many micro-organisms which
> further shuts down the decomposition process.
>
> Now filling any of these negative conditions means that organic matter will
> not decay properly. As you can see, if we simply add more organic matter
> to a pile that is not decomposing, the situation will not improve. I'm sure
> many of you have added material to a non-functioning compost pile and
> wondered why it wasn't working.
>
> Something was out of balance in the compost and something is out of balance
> with the soil. Adding more of the same without changing the basic
> conditions will not correct a problem.
>
> According to Walters, Field bindweed likes these negative conditions.
>
> So, if you accept the proposition that plants are indicators of soil
> conditions (and I do) then there is something fundamentally out of balance
> with a soil that will support massive quantities of field bindweed. My soil
> is fertile and quite well aerated so I don't have a bindweed problem. (Talk
> to me about lamb's quarters and pigweed though):-)
>
> If you have bindweed, you'll have to decide whether you have any of these
> problems and correct them. That is your decision and gardening fun.:-)
>
> I also wrote from Walters:
> "Bindweed also flourishes in soils with low humus counts (possibly related
> to improper decay properties) such as sand and heavy clay soils. Low
> measurements of calcium (hence the gypsum), phosphorus, potassium and pH
> also promote its growth."
>
> So, we find bindweed in sandy and heavy clay soils (both of which have
> problems with decomposition) Low calcium and other components has been
> implicated in this plant's success.
>
> Again, if you have bindweed, you'll have to be the judge of whether any of
> this material is of use to you. I make no judgement about the ability of
> any gardener with any weed (Jeez, if you've seen my garden, you'll know
> that weeds and I are on a first name basis):-) and you'll have to judge
> whether Walters is of any use to you.
>
> Let me repeat. Get the soil right and you can grow darn near anything.
>
> Doug
> who is going back to writing his next book
> and playing in his solar greenhouse
>
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