Re: deer - some observations from long experience

Well, I've been having a running battle with Bambi for the past five or six
years.  Have a resident herd of up to twelve and here's what I've learned
so far, FWIW:

*  Deer will eat *anything* if they are hungry enough....there are NO deer
resistant plants that work for every herd of deer in every location.  Even
if they decide they don't like it, it may be hard on the plant as they
nibble to find out.  They will also eat different things in different
years...something that was safe for years may turn out to be caviar to a
new herd member.  Deer love rose leaves and buds -- after the wild roses in
my woods start to leaf out, the deer stop harassing my garden as much; 
deer used to eat all my prickly squash leaves;  deer eat things with thorns
all the time.  They are less fond of highly scented herbs than other
plants, but I have heard tell of them eating Lavender.  Herbs high in
essential oils are not at the top of their lists of preferred plants,
though.  My herd likes basil and even tomato leaves.  They love yew,
although it is poisonous, even to them; but being browsers, apparently they
don't eat enough at any one time to do them in.

*  Having dogs just patrol and mark the perimeter of a property does not
deter deer.  I have 2 golden retrievers that to that every day...deer could
care less, they know those dogs don't go out without a leash.

* Having dogs who do not run loose does not deter deer.  They soon learn
that the dogs can't really get them.

*  Soap and hair will not deter a determined and hungry deer for long --
maybe once, but they get used to it and if they are hungry, they will eat
anyway.

*  Blood and bone meal do not deter deer;  they attract carnivores who are
absolutely certain that, if they dig down far enough, they will find the
dead whatever that's putting out that delicious smell....not good for
plants.

*  Bird netting will keep them off of things with large leaves like hosta
and even other plants if you can rig it so the plants don't grow through it
(creating one helluva mess extricating the plants...talk about tedious) AND
you can figure out how to keep them from nosing under it or learning they
can break through it.  It worked for me for a few years until mine figured
out it wasn't going to hurt them and that they were stronger than it was.. 
I am really glad to give up on this because it also traps small creatures
and I've lost 2 or 3 lovely blacksnakes to getting entwined in the mesh
when I didn't notice.  I still feel badly about this...would not harm them
for the world.

*  Electric fencing will work;  the downside is that it's not really
practical in a heavily wooded site; it's not cheap and there are other
problems, both of safety and aesthetics.  Would think it a good answer for
a vegetable garden on an open site, but not an ornamental one.  I
understand from other posts on other lists that you need to put out tinfoil
wrapped around the wires, smeared with peanut butter - every year to teach
the new youngsters that the fence bites.

*  Deer can jump 8' with absolutely no problem and I've seen them sail over
10' without noticeable effort.  

* Any fence they can see through, they will jump IF they figure they have a
clear landing space.  If you want to keep them out, you need to put two
"see through" fences about 4 or 5 feet apart, creating a narrow run that
they will be afraid they will get caught in.  Someone on Gardens-L (can't
remember who) said they had good luck with one fence backed by raised beds
that created a situation the deer weren't sure they could jump because they
couldn't see a clear landing spot.

* I *think* but cannot absolutely verify that they will not jump a fence
they can't see through.  I have a partial fence - solid board, 6' high
around what used to be my veggie patch and they walk past it but have never
jumped it.

*  I have had success with Milorganite (sewage sludge granular fertilizer,
low in nutrients) for a couple of years.  Knock on wood.  Others have and
others haven't, but if you can get it, it is worth a try.   I fling this
about liberally every 2 to 4 weeks depending on the amount of rain we've
gotten. Plants don't seem to mind it either.

*  Deer do not like rotten egg concoctions.  Diane's recipe should work
because it is basically what's in several of the very expensive commercial
sprays.  These sprays do work, but must be re-applied after every rain
(I've tried all of them)....and the deer will have a nice time if you run
into a really rainy patch of several days in a row.

*  I'm trying a new one this year and so far it's working (again knock on
wood).  I've gotten a *lot* of heavy green plastic diamond mesh fence just
like that orange stuff used around construction sites and light duty metal
fence posts and have surrounded my yews and azaleas with this for the
winter..  A lot of work (and not very decorative - NGP says it looks like a
concentration camp), but, with the addition of bamboo poles laced to top
and bottom, it seems to be keeping the lil' darlings off my yews and
azaleas.  Time will tell.  Right expensive in the quantity I've had to get
and a royal pain to erect...and I'm sure another in the offing to take it
down.

I have heard tell of this miracle product called "This 1 Works" and
apparently available in Ohio.  It is supposed to contain that bitter stuff
used to discourage kids from sucking their thumbs.  But, since I've never
been able to a) find it around here or b) find out who makes it, it may
only be a mirage.  If anyone has used it or knows who manufactures it, I'd
sure like to know.

One thing Bambi does is keep the gardener on his or her toes trying to
outwit them.

Best of luck to all you Bambi ridden gardeners out there and my sincerest
sympathy....I *know* what you're going through.

Marge Talt, zone 7 Maryland
mtalt@clark.net
Editor:  Gardening in Shade
http://www.suite101.com/frontpage/frontpage.cfm?topicID=222
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----------
> From: Jackie Bell <jbell@gwi.net>
> To: perennials@mallorn.com
> Subject: Re: deer
> Date: Sunday, January 18, 1998 4:09 PM
> 
> mark wrote:
> 
>  > Dear Rita,
> > I agree with a lot of what Jackie says. Tulips and hosta cannot
possibly
> > be deer resistant. I have ben experimenting for some time with der
> > resistant plants as we have a great deal of deer out my way, especially
> > near the wooded state parks. I have found that mant things that
> > nurseries have claimed to be deer resistant were not. They ate all the
> > green off the Rosa ragosa, not just the buds, and they have eaten the
> > barberry. They do leave the grasses and many ferns alone. They have
even
> > gone after Rhododendron varieties, but not yet the maximus. Chris' list
> > of perennials is not in my experience accurate, but i have yet to see
> > one that is. I have tried many sprays with mixed results. After a
strong
> > rain the sprays seem to wash off. I believe where practical to use
> > fencing, but during rutting season the bucks can plow their way through
> > heavy duty fences. Also the large ones can jump 8' fencing.
> > 
> 
> Mark:   Your deer ate barberry!!!!!  and the leaves from ragosa
> roses!!!!!   Now I'm depressed....  I thought those were a few shrubs
> that were absolutely deer resistant.  They have never touched mine, but
> it's frustrating to know that they might.  
> 
> BTW, what zone are you in?
> 
> Jackie Bell
> Great Diamond Island
> Portlant, Maine  zone 4-5
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