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Re: Advice re:burning

To Donna Daniel in Ohio:

I basically aggree with Alan Rider about the eventual dominance of 
the grasses, although Cliff Welsch up in Michigan has had good 
luck with plugging (not seeding, as far as I know) forbs into well-
established grass. But it doesn't sound like you're ready to burn 
with the thin cover you describe. 

More and more, we are finding that prairie planters are having good 
results from sowing grasses and forbs together from the start 
(preferably in fall or winter), and keeping the plantings mowed the 
first couple of years to prevent the short-lived pioneer weeds from 
flowering and setting seed. After that burn annually for a few years, 
preferably in February or early March, so as not to favor the 
grasses as you would with later burns. 

Conyza that gets mowed is essentially a non-issue, so not worth 
using herbicide on. Are you sure those aren't native thistles? We 
find that native Cirsium discolor (with white undersides to the 
leaves) comes on strong in new plantings here, but has reduced 
seed-set with timely mowing, and even where we don't mow it, it 
subsides naturally as the burn regimen is applied. I always 
recommend: Don't use herbicides if you don't have to.

James C. Trager
Shaw Nature Reserve
Gray Summit, Missouri

On 31 Jan 01, at 12:06, alan_rider@illinoispower.com wrote:

> 
> The good news is Big Bluestem and Indian grass will choke out most of
> the undesireable plants. The bad news is it will choke out most of the
> desireable plants too, now or in the future.  So I would consider this
> before planting forbs.  Certainly some forbs can compete, but many
> can't.  I now plant forbs first and add grasses later.  In some areas
> I even rip out the grasses and re-plant forbs only. Burning your
> grasses will make them more vigorous, and make spraying easier to do ,
> assuming you would spray before the grasses really start growing (late
> june onward).  I would suggest burning either way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Daniel, Donna" <Donna.Daniel@dnr.state.oh.us>@mallorn.com on
> 01/31/2001 11:45:27 AM
> 
> Please respond to prairie@mallorn.com
> 
> Sent by:  owner-prairie@mallorn.com
> 
> 
> From foo@bar  Wed Jan 31 12:07:46 2001
> To:   "'Prairie listserve'" <prairie@mallorn.com>
> cc:
> Approved: tolkien
> 
> Subject:  Advice re:burning
> 
> 
> Hello-
> Need a little advice...
> We have a 4 acre field (in Ohio) planted 2 years ago to a mix of big
> blue and Indian grass.   Around the perimeter of the field was planted
> a 16' section made up of a mix of little blue and sideoats.  Have had
> a lot of trouble in year 1 and 2 with Canada thistle and mare's
> tail/horseweed (Conyza canadensis).  We've done some spot spraying
> (2-4,D) mainly last year to try and control the broadleaves. Overall,
> the grass is coming on slowly but there is still a lot of bare ground
> in the field and lots of mare's tail rosettes.  We'd like to burn this
> spring (late March) but don't think we'll get a very good burn close
> to the ground with the low stem density.  Would it be better to mow
> the field with a sicklebar mower (so stems are on and close to the
> ground, but not chopped as with a rotary mower) before burning?  We
> anticipate having to follow-up this growing season with Plateau to
> control weeds regardless of a good burn or not.  Will Plateau have any
> negative effect on the sideoats plants that are already established (2
> years old)?
> 
> Also, after the burn we'd like to throw forb seed around the field
> (Plateau resistant species) and pack it lightly.
> 
> Any comments on the forb planting technique and regarding mowing prior
> to a burn?  Should we even consider burning this year?  If we don't
> burn, can we still incorporate the forb seed this year or should we
> wait?
> 
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions-
> Donna Daniel
> Columbus, OH
> 
> 
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