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Re: Seeding forbs into Established Grass

Carl Kurtz wrote:
> 
> >I have established grasses of mostly Indian grass, with some Big and Little
> >Bluestem, (it seems the Indian Grass has out competed the other 2 grasses,
> >in this, the 4th year of growing).  Virtually all the of the garbage weeds
> >have disappeared except for trumpet vine, Fleabane daisy, bind weed and
> >some sweet clover.
> >Now I am considering sowing forbs into the grasses.  I have read about
> >lightly tilling the grasses and then seeding into it.  I am looking for any
> >and all info about this process, including when to do this (what time of
> >year), how deep to till etc etc....Or any other suggestions/ideas ...thank
> >you
> >
> >
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> 
> Alan,
> 
> We have done some interseeding in established grass stands and have had
> mixed results.  It appears that if you mow the area quite regularily for a
> season following the seeding at a height of 6-8 inches you greatly enhance
> the ability of the seedlings to survive and will get a forb stand in 3 or 4
> years.
> 
> Where we have not mowed in an established grasss stand we have very low
> species diversity and only the most hardy species such as rigid goldenrod,
> sawtooth sunflower, ox-eye sunflower, gray-headed coneflower and compass
> plant.  The seed mix had about 50 species and it took 5 or six years to get
> results.
> 
> You might also try spraying the grasses with "Post" which will supress the
> grasses, but will not kill them and it will not kill most of the forbs.  It
> is a soybean herbicide.
> 
> Carl Kurtz
> 515-477-8364
> cpkurtz@netins.net
> 
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I would like to submit a comment on the use of herbicides as tools to
manage and or establish desired plant communities.  Herbicides seem to
be recommended more so in the "native plant community guild" than in the
past.  This seems to be a paradigm shift in the way some people are
thinking these days.  In a previuos era it seemed that many of these
folks condemned the use of chemicals as it philosophically clashed with
the concept of "natural".  The criticism was usually aimed at production
agriculture.  I am an agronomist with a MS Degree in Weed Science.  Over
the years production agriculture has been forced to be more judicious
with the use of farm chemicals due to environmental consequences and
concerns about food safety.  It is impossible to critcize this because
we all want to have a healthy environment and not get sick from the food
we eat.  Imprudent use of farm chemicals is obviously not the way to
manage agricultural land.  Most crop acreage in Illinois is treated with
herbicides and to lesser extents with insecticides and fungicides.  The
reason farmers make use of the selective properties of these chemicals
is to manage a plant community.  That is to say to create a monoculture
for profit.  Many chemical tools are available and are selected based on
the crop grown, weed species present, rotational considerations, cost
per acre and many other factors.  The approach to weed and pest control
is more prescription oriented than in the past.
The point to all of this pontification is this:
I frequently read where individuals recommend the use of agricultural
chemicals in creating the desired "natural" or "native" plant
communities.  These individuals are seeing how useful these tools are
and when used properly are safe for the environment.  The understanding
of the properties of various herbicides and their use in establishing
native plant communities is increasing among novices and professionals. 
Those of us in production agriculture have known this for years.  The
only thing that concerns me is that I often see certain agricultural
chemicals recommended for uses that are not on the label.  It is
unlawful to do this.  The penalties can be severe.  These penalties are
just as severe when one uses a chemical "off label" for native plant
establishment as when one uses a chemical "off label" to create a weed
free corn field.
These materials are more effective, environmentally friendly, and in
most cases less toxic to off target organisms than chemicals used 10-15
years ago. I would caution anyone proposing to use chemical X or Y to
research the label prior to its use.

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