AIRPLANE FACTS & PUMPKIN
Diana,
I'm glad that you did well in Physics... I did too.
And a little engineering background. ( remember - a
little knowledge can be a dangerous thing) Just
because you got an A+ in physic doesn't mean you know
anything about how airplanes are designed or how they
work. Don't insult me by saying "I thought you
aeronautical engineering types would know this." I
have a graduate schooling education and 10+ years in
aircraft design and analysis so I know how they work.
It's my job and I take it very serious because over a
million people fly in planes everyday. Many planes
that I as part of a big team helped designed and
analyzed. I wouldn't normally tout my own
credentials but in this case it is relevant and you
questioned them. It is obvious that you don't know
anything about airplane pressurization. Yes Cargo
holds are pressurized too.
At sea level there is 14.7 PSI.
At 10,000ft it is 10.1 PSI.
At 40,000 ft it is 2.73 PSI.
See: http://www.cleandryair.com/AltitudePressure.htm
"However, modern airplanes are pressurized to
stabilize
the internal air pressure in the plane so that the
passengers don't blow their ear drums and pass out at
30,000 feet. The cargo areas are also pressurized or
you would hear more than the pumpkins popping down in
the hold."
"You can safely ship a pumpkin by airplane and not
worry about the HOT AIR Effect because the air
pressure in the plane is held almost constant during
the flight."
Sorry Diana - This is not true !!!! YES modern
airplanes are pressurized…. But it is a little know
fact that the pressure is not held constant nor is it
held the same as it was at take off"
At 40,000 ft the pressure inside a 737 is 11.3 PSI.
And all big jets are similar.
The difference between sea level and 10,000 ft is 4.6
PSI
The difference between sea level and a pressured 737
at 40,000 ft is 3.4 PSI. So I was wrong the
difference is great from sea level to 10,000 ft. But
they are close and you were talking like 1 PSI is all
it would take to explode (in this case implode) your
pumpkin. So if you put your pumpkin in a plane and
ship it some where, which people have done, you will
be putting a 3.4 PSI pressure differential on your
pumpkin- this has happened on several occasions and no
spits where reported. And this differential in
pressure occurs fairly rapidly- with in an hour or so.
So there you have it... a rapid pressure change of
over 3 PSI !
figure out for me how hot or cold, or how fast the
cavity must expand to create a 3 PSI pressure
differential inside a pumpkin ?
"The Doucet Effect is transitory and any induced
pressure differential dissipates over time."
"most of the time the pressure difference is zero" ….
You're starting to agree with me. There is no effect.
You say that this Hot Air effect is transitory and
dissipates over time- but these pumpkins are thick…
6-8-10 inches in wall thickness. This means that any
heating or cooling of the inside cavity would take
place very slowly. Like in a big camping cooler. And
the bottom of every pumpkin is in the shade all day
and is in contact with the ground, which would also
dampen any heating or cooling effects. Thus allowing
pressure inside would stay the same because the slow
heating or cooling inside would be equalized before it
had a chance to build. You'd have to heat up or cool
the whole pumpkin up pretty fast to get the air inside
to heat up quickly.
" Think about this a little more."
Its not the amount of time spent thinking its the
amount of timethinking correctly that counts. I have
thought about it all I need to. Enough to know that
Pumpkins split because they grow faster than they can
hold themselves together. Plain and simple. Not
because of some air pressure differential, which even
if it were true would have a very small effect
compared to other factors.
The rapid growth and the hot air theories-
Rapid growth: the cavity is expanding right ? so you
are creating a vacuum, which would implode the
pumpkin.
Hot Air: hot air inside expands right? wanting to
explode the pumpkin.
So when they grow fast are you suggesting that we put
a electric blanket on and under them to help them
equalize inside?
Which one is your again? Both ? but they are two
separate effects that would in they had any
significant effect cancel each other out !
Your theory is nice and all - fun to think about...
but in this case it
doesn't even solve a problem... it just states why you
think one happens. If you
want to do something grand... then solve the problem !
In the pumpkin world there have been lots of great
advances…who was the first person to:
Come up with a fertilizing schedule ?
Bury vines ?
Shade their pumpkin with something ?
Built a shade structure ?
Support the vine on each side of the stem ?
Prune their plant ?
Grow a Christmas tree shape ?
Put something under their pumpkin ?
Built a early season greenhouse ?
Came up with the contest /weigh-off ?
Built a wind break ?
Use heating coils ?
Use a sprinkler system ?
Use a sprinkler system with a timer ?
Use soaker hoses ?
Use a misting system ?
Spray for insects ?
Spray for diseases?
All of you folks need to step forward so we can name
these real advances in pumpkin growing after you.
Of course Howard Dill got some credit that he deserved
by coming up with the
AG in the first place. They are Dill's Atlantic
Giants right ?... but we have
even dropped his name from the tittle. So even he
isn't getting credit for
doing all that he did.
But since we are playing the game here, here are some
of my theories:
TEBT- Tanner electric blanket theory
TSST- Tanner sunscreen skin theory
TVST- Tanner vasoline skin theory
TSTST- Tanner scratch the skin theory
TWBST- Tanner watering barrel system theory. (still
somewhat of a secret)
TWBFST- Tanner watering barrel fertilization system
theory. (even more of a secret)
TANST- Tanner airplane no split theory- which was use
to disprove the Doucet theory.
TLIMFFT- Tanner lime, ironite, miracle grow, fish
fertilizer, fertilizing theory
TLIMFFWBFST Tanner lime, ironite, miracle grow, fish
fertilizer, fertilizing theory, watering barrel
fertilization system theory. (hopefully the biggest
secret !)
In the future will you all kindly please refer as
stated above so that just credit can given.
As for the Doucet effect, you sold selling yourself
short. What if you come up with an even better effect
next week? Well then the Doucet effect name is
already taken.
but if you were more specific like me... then you
could have 100's or 1000's
of theories named after you - right? see what I mean
with don't sell yourself short.. too bad you didn't
come up with a better name... a good is a suggestion
might have been.... the Doucet hot air theory. But
it is too late the Doucet theory is hard and fast !
Right !
that is until the next version comes out.
What version are we on now anyway?
"(We'll call it the Gordon Tanner Whoopee Cushion
Experiment)"
Come on Diana- can't you do better than that ? that
didn't even get a chuckle out of the people I talked
to…. Ok maybe a weak smile. But lets analysis this
name … lets see…whoopee cushion…. Where you try to get
a person to sit on a whoopee cushion as a gag or joke
because it make a sound similar to a bodily sound. HA
HA funny. The sound of whoosh is not at all like
that of a whoopee cushion. but i guess they both have
to do with air and pressure - so i can give you that.
but in my proposed experiment. one would poke a small
metal rod into a pumpkin and listen for a small rush
of air… maybe "short small hiss" would have been a
better word. since it is your theory - you should be
the one to run the experiments. anyway -I left myself
wide open for you to get me with "hiss" … and do go
with a snake that would be way to obvious.
If you want to play the exchange verbal exchage barbs
game- well then I can do it too.
(ask Steve and pumpkins and chess)
I hope you grow a big one this year !
Gordon Tanner
Maple Valley WA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Thanks Gordon for your input. I'm glad there are some
engineering types out there reviewing my theory.
However, modern airplanes are pressurized to stabilize
the internal air pressure in the plane so that the
passengers don't blow their ear drums and pass out at
30,000 feet. The cargo areas are also pressurized or
you would hear more than the pumpkins popping down in
the hold.
You can safely ship a pumpkin by airplane and not
worry about the Doucet Effect because the air pressure
in the plane is held almost constant during the
flight.
I thought you aeronautical engineering types would
know this.
I agree with almost everything else you say in your
post. However, nothing in your post disproves my
theory in any way. Your experiment of opening pumpkins
and not hearing whooshing sounds is a relevant
observation. (We'll call it the Gordon Tanner Whoopee
Cushion Experiment) However, I would expect that the
pressure of the air pocket in a pumpkin would tend to
normalize with the outside pressure, so that most of
the time the pressure difference between the interior
pocket of air and the outside world would be zero.
Your experiment helps prove this.
The Doucet Effect is transitory and any induced
pressure differential dissipates over time.
It would be only during periods of rapid growth, rapid
temperature change or rapid outside pressure change
that a pressure diffential would develop. The
pressure would then tend to equalize over some period
of time with the outside because the pumpkin acts like
a sealed container with a slow leak. The leak
provides the equalization. If this were not true, the
interior cavity pressure would rarely be equalized
with the outside pressure.
Think about this a little more. I have a little
engineering in my background too and I'm not ready to
roll over on this idea yet.
diana
3rd year grower,
best 587 est. 1999
A+ in physics
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Pumpkin-growing FAQ: http://www.mallorn.com/lists/pumpkins/search.cgi
To sign-off this list, send email to majordomo@mallorn.com with the
message text UNSUBSCRIBE PUMPKINS
