Re: Selfing

Mike and all:

Great topic!

I've been studying what has been said (written) by
Nic Welty, Joe Ailts, Mike Nepereny and others.
Here is what I understand about the F1/F2 hybrid
theory: (note that this is theory...)

* To create an F2, cross your fruit with something from the mother line.
* F2's are created to enhance consistency.
* A "self" or "sib" pollination qualifies as an F2.
* Make an F1 by starting with an F2 and then crossing another line. Ideally, one would hope to get some desirable characteristic from the new line. (Thick walls,
nice color, etc.)
* The worlds best seeds have had elements of this theory in their background, intentional or not.

Note from history: which two seeds have had most
impact? I would suggest the 935 Lloyd and 567.5 Mombert.
Many hot seeds today, come from these lines, example:
723, 940 Mombert 98, etc.

Each of these was created by some degree of inbreeding
in the lines, to reduce the number of parents, keep the
gene pool more pure and thus create consistency. Then,
you introduce a new line. Perhaps this is where the
concept of "hybrid vigor" comes in... not just from
endlessly crossing, but by starting with two fairly
pure sources and then crossing.

Well anyway, I'm no expert, but any theory is fun to
play with. I think it fits what we've seen.

Take a look at the 846 Calai background. It takes
fairly pure 567.5 Mombert genetics and crosses that
with Lloyd, also fairly pure. That seed of course
speaks for itself.

Once again, great topic. Lets use this list!

Regards, Cliff



From: Mike and Vickie Brock <vbrock@mcn.org>
Reply-To: pumpkins@hort.net
To: <pumpkins@hort.net>
Subject: Selfing
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 13:56:37 -0800

Here are some thoughts that I posted on BP.com and thought it a good subject
to get going on both lists. So what are we seeing these days? Whats
working?

Most of the hotties come from heterozygous(outbreed) parents. The idea of
selfing is to isolate a gene that gives you a desired trait. It works well
when you have a specific trait in mind like flavor or color. By selfing you
can increase the probability of seeing the trait you want. But you can also
drop traits such as vigor and disease resistance invisible traits. Of course
the idea we want with selfing is to increase the predictability of monsters.
I think that we are always going to be stuck with a small amount of seed in
a batch that demonstrate huge and heavy and the rest somewhere in between.
Why because there are many genes that contribute to that outcome and the
trait were looking for is so heavily influenced by the environmental
factors. If a gene is like a coin and the law of probability says you can
hit heads 50% of the time ...imagine the probability of lining up 5 coins
and hitting heads. So I don't see how selfing is going to work if you don't
plant out the entire stock and pick the best....and do it again and again
what exactly are we trying to isolate large root system, triple tap roots at
each junction...we have to be specific and all the seeds would have to be
treated equally........but the jury is still out...not enough data...to
know...MB

Will the odds ever improve?

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