Re: Stewpid newbie tricks/genetic ramblings

Kathie and all,

I'd like to take your point about isolating a
particular line, (growing all the seeds from a
particular pumpkin) and run with it...

Pick a seed stock, any seed stock, one that grows
pumpkins with your most desired traits, (size,
weight, shape, color, etc.).

Assume for a moment that of the seeds within a
stock (i.e. from the same pumpkin) have a variety
of potential. We're pretty sure that they do have
a variety of potential, some more than others. These
seeds would fall out (if we could measure them) into
a "bell curve". (Or many bell curves based on various
factors...)

My point about growing all the seeds is that... we
don't need to grow all the seeds, just a representative
sample. That is, if you truly want the one single set
of genes that represented the very high end of the bell
curve, you could plant all the seeds. But statistical
methods could tell us that we might have a 95% confidence
that, with a selection of a certain number of seeds,
at least one of them would be in the top 10% of the
bell curve.

Well, we don't have all the needed data to make this
determination, but if I were to hazard a wild guess,
I'd say that 10 to 15 seeds should do what we would
want.

Take 10 to 15 seeds from a desired stock. Plant them,
then save another set selected from the very best of
what grows. Repeat the process. In a few generations
this selection of the best might result in a very
powerful set of genes.

To some degree, this is what we collectively already
do... As Vince points out, just look at the progress
we as a whole are making. Every year the weights
are ramping up. In fact,
to me this explosion of weight each year is almost
miraculous, but so far it keeps on happening. It must
be some combination of more growers attempting, with
better practices, and better genetics.

Again, my only point is, do we mix it up too much?

Of course not many of us have the resource to play with
10 to 15 plants from one seed stock year, or if we
did would we be willing to do that? We all want to have
a collection of great seeds and "hedge our bets"...
that at least one of them will be good.

I can't argue much with what we do now, and I certainly can't
argue with what Helmut Laemelle did, which is what I've
described here. Long live the AG!

Regards, Cliff

By the way: Anyone else watching the grower diary on
bigpumpkins.com, of the fellow in Austrailia who is
growing the 845? The Austrailian record is around 600
pounds and he has just crossed the 1000 pound estimate!





From: Kathie Morgan <fishrap@earthlink.net>
Reply-To: pumpkins@hort.net
To: pumpkins@hort.net
Subject: Stewpid newbie tricks
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 06:01:17 -0800

Draw's comment concerning tomatoes keeps me awake nights. It occurs to
me that if we (list members) grew out all the seeds from all the largest
- among those of us going for weight - we would sooner reach whatever
the limit might be. Instead of trying to get our hands on those
increasingly rare Bobiers and Calais.
Those for whom color - or shape - is equally important could grow out
all the 'best' in those categories.
I share my seeds with Mr Ray Barenchi, and he always takes the seeds
from whatever the biggest pumpkins were. Last year I believe he relieved
me of most of the seeds sent me by the generous Ms Geneva Emmons and Mr
Steve Daletas, and the fruits on his plant grown from the 1262 Emmons
seed were awesome. Unfortunately they both developed small splits before
weigh-off.
His theory is that the right genetic combination has to be in the mix to
have produced the original.
Like my hero Brock, just thinking...
Kathie

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